gymn Digest                 Sun, 10 Jul 94       Volume 2 : Issue 146

 

Today's Topics:

                    A note on trivia fact checking

                      Back to Back release moves

                      Calendar (again) for July

                      Enjoying *ALL* Gymnastics

                              Groshkova

                  Groshkova and other stuff (2 msgs)

               Male Judges of Women Gymnastics (3 msgs)

                        NCAA Gymnasts (3 msgs)

                            Original Moves

                                PR Cup

             Trivia Answers - #17 Original Moves (2 msgs)

                        Trivia Stuff (2 msgs)

                                 USGF

                USOF '94: complete women's AA results

                        USOF '94: men's events

                         USOF '94: women's AA

 

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list. 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 03:09:27 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: A note on trivia fact checking

 

As I've gotten a bunch of mail regarding disputed facts on the last trivia

set, I wanted to put a brief note together to try to figure out a way to

handle it.

 

First let me say that 'the buck stops here.'  In other words, if an error

makes it into a Trivia Set, it's my fault.  Here's how I'd like to try to

eliminate the problem:

 

Basically, the problem that develops is that I solicit questions from

everyone out there, but have no ready reference (and usually not the time)

from where to fact check all the questions.  Therefore, I would ask that if

you have an interesting question, but aren't sure 100% sure of the answer,

please note that after the question.  I'll still try to use the question, but

maybe can find someone to confirm the answer. 

 

If you get the Trivia Answers and disagree with one or more, please let me

know! 

 

Thanks everyone!  Hope you're enjoying the Trivia!

 

Mara

 

------------------------------

 

Date: 9 Jul 1994 18:04:12 -0800

From: <***@qm.sri.com>

Subject: Back to Back release moves

 

 

As far as the question about back to back release moves, there was no male

versus female specification. Natalya Yurchenko performed back to back release

moves in the 1983 World Championships. (I believe the combination was

Tkachev, Deltchev....)

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 00:13:49 -0500

From: <***@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>

Subject: Calendar (again) for July

 

Sorry everyone, this being summer, I check in less often to get my mail...

And so I was really surprised to see the calendar bounced the first time I

sent it (Five days ago).  Here it is again.

 

 

   ###################################################################

   #                                                                 #

   #  ________ G y m n ________                 \       |      ___   #

   #                               o     __o     |o     |o    (o     #

   #     An electronic forum       !__   \!      !      !      \.    #

   #       for gymnastics.       ====== ====== ====== ====== ======  #

   #                                                                 #

   ###################################################################

 

The Gymn Calendar

 

Anyone that has any events to add to this calendar, please mail them

to me.  All events on this calendar are

subject to change.  -- Efton

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

      July 1994

 S  M Tu  W Th  F  S

                1  2

 3  4  5  6  7  8  9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16

17 18 19 20 21 22 23

24 25 26 27 28 29 30

31

 

1-9             Special Olympics World Summer Games/ New Haven, CT

1-10            U.S. Olympic Festival (M/W/R)/ St. Louis, MO

3               U.S. Olympic Festival (M/W/R)/ TELEVISED ON CBS

6-9             Puerto Rico Internat. Gymn. Cup (M/W)/ San Juan, Puerto Rico

9               U.S. Olympic Festival (M/W/R)/ TELEVISED ON CBS

10              U.S. Olympic Festival (M/W/R)/ TELEVISED ON CBS

14-17           Coaches Workshop/ Sunbury, OH

15-17           2nd Elite Regionals (W)/ Various Sites

16              Hilton Challenge Triangular Meet/ TELEVISED ON ABC

22-24           National Gymnastics Festival (Elite W)/ Colorado Springs, CO

23-8/7          Goodwill Games/ St. Petersburg, Russia

26-29           U.S. Sports Acro Nationals/ Cedar City, UT

29-31           State Chairman Workshop (W)/ Indianapolis, IN

31-8/6          Coaches Workshop (M/W)/ Woodward, PA

TBA             Rhythmic International Festival/ TBA

-----

 

     August 1994

 S  M Tu  W Th  F  S

    1  2  3  4  5  6

 7  8  9 10 11 12 13

14 15 16 17 18 19 20

21 22 23 24 25 26 27

28 29 30 31

 

4-7             U.S. Classic Nationals (W)/ Palm Springs, CA

12              Gymn's Second Anniversary

18-28           Commonwealth Games/ Victoria, B.C., Canada

        19-22   Commonwealth Games (Artistic Gymnastics)

        25-27   Commonwealth Games (Rhythmic Gymnastics)

20              Hilton Challenge Triangular Meet/ TELEVISED ON ABC

24-27           Coca-Cola USA National Championships/ Nashville, TN

24-27           USA Gymnastics National Congress/ Nashville, TN

27              Coca-Cola USA National Championships/ TELEVISED ON NBC

28              Coca-Cola USA National Championships/ TELEVISED ON NBC

29-9/3          XII Olympic Congress/ Paris, France

-----

 

   September 1994

 S  M Tu  W Th  F  S

             1  2  3

 4  5  6  7  8  9 10

11 12 13 14 15 16 17

18 19 20 21 22 23 24

25 26 27 28 29 30

 

10-11           Golden Sands/ Varna, Bulgaria

27-10/2         T.O.P. National Testing (W)/ TBA

-----

 

     October 1994

 S  M Tu  W Th  F  S

                   1

 2  3  4  5  6  7  8

 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

16 17 18 19 20 21 22

23 24 25 26 27 28 29

30 31

 

2-16            Asian Games (M/W)/ Hiroshima, Japan

6-9             Rhythmic World Championships/ Paris, France

21-23           World Championship Team Trials/ TBA

28-30           Gymnaestrada/ Palm Springs, CA

TBA             Rhythmic International Invitation (R)/ TBA

-----

 

   November 1994

 S  M Tu  W Th  F  S

       1  2  3  4  5

 6  7  8  9 10 11 12

13 14 15 16 17 18 19

20 21 22 23 24 25 26

27 28 29 30

 

9-12            Olympic Congress of the USA/ Nashville, TN

15-20           World Championships (Team)/ Dortmund, Germany

TBA             Chunichi Cup/ Nagoya City, Japan

TBA             Catania (W)/ Catania, Italy

-----

 

December 1994

3               Team World Championships/ TELEVISED ON NBC

15-21           Pacific Alliance Championships/ Auckland, New Zealand

TBA             DTB Cup/ Stuttgart, Germany

-----

 

March 1995

4-19            Pan American Games/ Mar Del Plata, Argentina

25              NCAA Regionals (M)/ TBA

-----

 

April 1995

7-8             NCAA National Champs (M)/ TBA

-----

 

July 1995

9-15            10th World Gymnaestrada/ Frankfurt, Germany

TBA             U.S. Olympic Festival (M/W/R)/ Denver, CO

-----

 

August 1995

10-13           Coca-Cola National Championships/ TBA

12              Gymn's Third Anniversary

17-20           USA Gymnastics National Congress/ New Orleans, LA

24-9/8          World University Games (M/W/R)/ Fukuoka, Japan

-----

 

October 1995

1-10            Artistic World Championships/ Sabae, Japan

4-7             Olympic Congress of the USA/ Atlanta, GA

4-8             Rhythmic World Champs/ Vienna, Austria

-----

 

July 1996

19-8/4          Games of the XVIth Olympiad/ Atlanta, GA

-----

 

August 1996

12              Gymn's Fourth Anniversary

-----

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 94 23:58:05 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Enjoying *ALL* Gymnastics

 

To All:

    Being more or less the expert on women's NCAA gymnastics on Gymn, I find

myself always defending NCCA gymnasts. It seems there is large number of fans

who refuse to acknowledge the validity of any sort of gymnastics except

national and international "elite" gymnastics.

    I call such fans "elite-ists."

    These fans continue to bash NCAA gymnasts, calling them inferior and

calling the very structure itself inferior, as if it's not worth having.

 Amazingly, when I talk to these fans, most have not even attended a

high-level gymnastics meet.

    Interestingly, I have yet to meet an NCAA fan who bashes the elite

system. I've only encountered elitists who do the bashing.

    And this troubles me.

    You know, from the moment I saw Mary Lou Retton score her 10.00 on floor,

gymnastics has become special to me. It's not so much the skills or the

excitement but the fact that gymnasts do things that 99 percent of the rest

of the people in the world never will do.

    During the past four years, gymnastics has been a passion of mine. During

the collegiate gymnastics season, I am at a meet, sometimes two, EVERY

weekend. I've traveled to the past four national NCAA competitions, and I

write for a collegiate gymnastics publication.

    Three years ago, when the World Championships were held in Indianapolis,

I went and sat through every session for two weeks straight. I had hot fudge

Sundaes one night at 1 a.m. in a McDonald's with the Moroccan team. Two days

later, when that same team placed last at worlds, I sat with one of the

members of the Moroccan men's team in the hotel as he cried his heart out to

me in a language I couldn't understand.

    I have been to virtually every elite meet I could drive to -- usually the

McDonald's Cup, Mixed-Pairs, USAIGC nationals, you name it.

   But every once in a while, just for the fun of it, I call the local club

gym and ask when the next Level 5 and Level 6 meet is going to be held. Then

I attend, snuggle up in the stands next to parents with camcorders and admire

where it all begins.

   All of gymnastics, from the little baby waddlers in pre-school programs to

the 24-year-olds in college, brings a smile to my face.

    And that's why I find it so hard to understand when some so-called fans

put down collegiate gymnastics. These fans always preface their comments with

"I'm not picking on collegiate gymnastics, but...."

     Why do this? The NCAA is a chance for unknown and known gymnasts alike

to continue their careers, bringing happiness to themselves and scores of

fans. Sure, the majority of the competition is not on the international

level, but neither is a USAIGC meet or a state meet in Idaho. But is that any

reason to bash them? No.

   Recently, someone on Gymn made the remark that the NCAA consists of "girls

(who) were elites or level 10's that never quite made it on the national

team." This same person went on to say "that maybe it's because they lacked

that rather phsycotic desire to obey and train that most Int'l female

athletes (have)."

    Hmmm, do you think, perhaps, that most of the NCAA gymnasts never made

the national teams because there are 600-800 gymnasts in the NCAA and the

U.S. federation only allows 20 to be on the national team?

   Naaaa, that couldn't be the reason.

   And what about these inferior NCAA gymnasts? The past two years, a Level

10 gymnast out of Kentucky beat a combination of Olympian Hope Spivey,

Olympic alternate Kim Kelly, Olympian Sandy Woolsey and a bevy of former U.S.

national team members.

    In fact, in the all-around at this year's NCAA's, the Olympians were beat

out by a host of non-national team members, including a Level 10 and Level 9.

    Somebody also made the comment that the NCAA has some very cool stuff but

"lots of *very* lame stuff."

    Hmmmm. And the the World Championships doesn't? USA Nationals doesn't? A

Level 9 meet in Wisconsin doesn't?

    Of course they do. They all do. I wish people would stop pointing to a

lower-level NCAA gymnastics team filled with less-than-talented gymnasts and

say, "Hey, look, they're bad, so the rest of the NCAA must be bad, too!"

    And, finally, come the comments from certain elitists that collegiate

gymnasts are fake, that they don't enjoy what they're doing, that their

smiles aren't genuine.

    That's baloney.

   You only have to go to Senior Night at a collegiate meet to see these

gymnasts shiver with emotion and cry their eyes out as they accept their

flowers and ovations from the crowd. You only have to stand in the hallway

with the gymnasts, when the crowd gets loud, to see them acting like little

kids, smiling at each other in anticipation as they get ready to march out.

    You only have to see these genuine gymnasts crawl up into the stands

after a meet and sit there, sometimes for two hours, signing autographs and

talking to parents.

    All you have to do is sit in on the last press conferences given by

Olympians Hope Spivey and Missy Marlowe and listen to them choke back tears

as they say the past four years have been the greatest of their lives.

    The joy, the happiness, the cheers in the NCAA are genuine.

   When I hear people say, "I'm not picking on the NCAA but..," I think back

to that Moroccan team that placed dead last at the 1991 World Championships.

You know, when I ate with them at the McDonald's that late September night, I

got them all to autograph a McDonald's bag for me.

   I still have the bag to this day and I treasure it more than any other

gymnastics possession I have.

   But I wonder. Would the same people who pick on the NCAA tell me to throw

out my McDonald's bag? Would they say, "That team is inferior!"

   Sadly, I think they would.

   And that's a horrible, horrible shame.

---Ronald

   

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 94 0:39:48 EDT

From: <***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

Subject: Groshkova

 

     Didn't Tatiana Groshkova also introduce an amazing tumbling pass at the

1990 Europeans - something like a double layout with two twists in the first

somi? (I could be remembering that wrong, but she did something spectacular!)

Whatever it was, was she the first to do it?

     Beth

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 94 14:06:48 EDT

From: <***@freenet.scri.fsu.edu>

Subject: Groshkova and other stuff

 

In response to Susan's post,

 

In '88 Silivas performed a full in full out as you said.There are many

ways to do the skill(1 1/2 in 1/2 out,1/2 in 1 1/2 out,etc) and in my

attempts at this skill(into a foam pit of course) found the double in

back out much harder.

 

Aleftina Priakhina(is the spelling right,beth?) did a double twisting

double back way back at 86 Jr. Europeans.She had AMAZING

difficulty,even by today's standards.She was the first to do-

 

*standing full on beam

 

*double twisting yurchenko(I think europeans were before Goodwill

Games.Vera Kolesnikova flashed the number for the vault at 86 Us vs

Ussr but balked and left out the twist.)

 

*round off full twisting back handspring mounts on bars(!) and beam

 

*round off full twist on full twisting tsuk off (vault-like Scherbo's

second vault in finals)--

 

Also,I'm not sure about the connected release moves.That's a pretty

tough one.The first time that I saw Alexi Tikonkhi was in '86.At '83

world championships a german gymnast did a reverse hect to a

geinger.Bilozerchev also did this combo(I think.Susan?) but the german

was in an earlier round so that would mean he did it first.

 

Has anyone out there wondered why a chen was named after chen

cuiting?Hope Spivey did it at the '88 olympics and Chen didn't have it

in her routine until '89 worlds.Kinda irrelevant to the

conversation,but still interesting.

 

I may be wrong so help me out if I am,

 

Billy

 

 

 

--

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 94 20:26:40 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Groshkova and other stuff

 

>Also,I'm not sure about the connected release moves.That's a pretty

tough one.The first time that I saw Alexi Tikonkhi was in '86.At '83

world championships a german gymnast did a reverse hect to a

geinger.Bilozerchev also did this combo(I think.Susan?) but the german was in

an earlier round so that would mean he did it first.<

 

I do know that Alexei offcially gets the nod from most at least. I don't know

about some "German guy" (Billy hates identifying things like tapes etc.

<grin>) but 'fer sure Bilo didn't connect in '83 (he did later on). It was 1

arm (or in Dima's case 1 arm, 1 arm, 1 arm to Geinger) to Geinger and then

later a Tkatchev. Korolev did the one arm immed. Tkatchev (you know the one

about 6 cm. in the air . . . okay Beth send me hate mail . . . can you guys

tell that Beth and Billy and I all know each other?).

 

>Has anyone out there wondered why a chen was named after chen

cuiting?Hope Spivey did it at the '88 olympics and Chen didn't have it

in her routine until '89 worlds.Kinda irrelevant to the

conversation,but still interesting.<

 

Your federation must *submit* your original move to have it named after you

in the code of points. Also rarely is one person only working on a move . . .

if nothing else many from one country are (just about all the  Sov guys [well

not Bilo, Korolev, and Artemov] but they were oldies were throwing triple

backs so that one could be the first). Usually, as in the case of Deltchev's

HB move, it is "stolen" from someone in a little comp. that doesn't "count"

offically.

 

Susan

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 94 20:21:43 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Male Judges of Women Gymnastics

 

Hello!!!

 

      Very interesting to hear from the Puerto Rico Cup.  The

site of the 1996 World Championships.  Is very interesting to me,

to hear that there were not enough judges at such competition.  I

am a level 10 judge in the United States.  I would have love to

judge in the Puerto Rico's Cup but because I am male I can not

judge women gymnastics outside the United States.  In fact, the

United States is the only country in the world that allows males

to judge women gymnastics.  The number of male judges for women

gymnastics in the United States is growing.  In fact, I

personally know several elite male judges and level 10.  It is

hard for me to understand why the International Gymnastics

Federation (FIG) keeps a policy that clearly discriminate for

reason of sex.  Even the Puerto Rico Gymnastics Federation is

very cold to the idea of having male judges. 

 

       About two years ago, I was dating an international judge

(Brevet) from Puerto Rico.  Since I am Puerto Rican and I new as

much, if not more about gymnastics than my girlfriend, she

encouraged me to get in touch with the Puerto Rican federation to

see if I could be a judge for Women gymnastics.  She warned me

that it might be hard since even she had a hard time getting

adjusted to see me judging.  She was right, I found so many

obstacles and road blocks that I decided that it was not worth

the trouble since I was volunteering my time and money.  I could

have instead if I want, since Puerto Rico is a territory of the

United States and has to follow US constitution.  This was

clearly sex discrimination since I know that I am well qualify to

do the job as it shown by my training and credentials in the US.

But as my girlfriend at the time said, even if Puerto Rico

allowed me to judge there, I would still not be able to judge at

international level because of FIG policies.  FIG is an

international organization based in France that does not have to

follow US constitution.  It is very hard to understand.  In one

side males are very capable to coach great gymnasts but

apparently they are not capable of being unbiased and fit to

judge Women Gymnastics according to FIG policies.  What do you

think?  I like to hear the opinion of other in this matter.

 

Raul -- Go Bulldogs!!!!

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 10 Jul 1994 08:39:57 -0400 (edt)

From: <***@dorsai.dorsai.org>

Subject: Male Judges of Women Gymnastics

 

FIG does not allow cross gender certification. Males may not receive a

brevet for womens comp and women can not receive a brevet for mens comp.

It may be unfair but as the FIG is a Swiss based group there is little

that can be done about not allowing men to judge women internationaly and

vice versa.

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 10 Jul 1994 12:58:38 -0400 (edt)

From: <***@dorsai.dorsai.org>

Subject: Male Judges of Women Gymnastics

 

> FIG does not allow cross gender certification. Males may not receive a

> brevet for womens comp and women can not receive a brevet for mens comp.

> It may be unfair but as the FIG is a Swiss based group there is little

> that can be done about not allowing men to judge women internationaly and

> vice versa.

>

>

      To be a really excellent judge, one needs to have as complete a

background as possible in the sport.  Ideally, a judge should have been a

competitor, as well as a coach and have studied the book to the point

where one knows it inside and out.  There are numerous occasions where

the rules demand that you use your "gymnastics sense" to properly

evaluate something that is not specifically delineated in the code. Those

judges who were also competitors at one time, along with the other

attributes necessary will hopefully be better able to appreciate and

correctly evaluate such occurrences.  While being of the same gender as

the competitors does not guarantee competitve background, being of the

opposite gender certainly negates the opportunity for such experience. 

While one could equate certain skills from men's to women's gymnastics

and from women's to men's gymnastics, it should hopefully serve the

athlete more fairly if the judge can have this appreciation and

"gymnastics sense."

 

Ken

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 94 14:54:13 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: NCAA Gymnasts

 

To All:

   Youch! When I wrote earlier that it would be fun to see gymnasts like

NCAA-great Tammy Marshall in international competition because, in part, of

the genuine enjoyment they seem to have while performing routines, Susan

wrote back:

"Sorry but huh? All the NCAA girls with their big hair and large fake smiles

(I've never seen anything that plastic except maybe Bert Reynold's hair) look

like bad stewerdess. You are more then free to like and admire anyone you

choose but c'mon happy does not equal talented."

   Do I sense an anti-NCAA sentiment? I've never equated a smile on the floor

with talent. All I'm saying is that it's certainly refreshing to go to an

NCAA meet and see gymnasts laughing, joking and truly enjoying the crowd and

their routines. When you go to club meets and national & international meets,

it's usually pretty stoic. There's nothing wrong with that, per se. It's just

that I tend to enjoy routines a little bit more when the gymnast seems to be

having more fun.

   And as far as Tammy Marshall goes, anybody who has seen her can tell you

she had more than just a smile. She had talent, particularly on floor. Her

first pass was a brilliant Arabian double-front and when she went

head-to-head with some of the *world's* best at World University Games, she

took second.

   Not too shabby.

--- Ron

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 94 20:20:01 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: NCAA Gymnasts

 

 Helo Everyone!!!

 

   Ron writes:  

 

>  And as far as Tammy Marshall goes, anybody who has seen her

can tell you

>she had more than just a smile. She had talent, particularly on

floor. Her

>first pass was a brilliant Arabian double-front and when she

went

>head-to-head with some of the *world's* best at World University

Games, she

>took second.

>   Not too shabby.

 

     Very well said.  Certainly, as in everything, you can find a

wide range of type of gymnasts in NCAA.  But people tend to

overlook the increasing quality and level of gymnastics in NCAA.

Just to describe one example, two time Canadian Olympian, Lori

Strong, has flourished in collegiate gymnastics.  She says that

she has never had as much fun with gymnastics as she is having in

college.  Of course she had plenty of good experiences in the

international level, but at that level the pressure to do well is

very large and sometime suppresses the spontaneous expressions

and reactions.  At NCAA she is more free to express herself

without fearing that international judges are going to penalize

her for being different.  And that freedom shows at the NCAA

meets.  Gymnasts laughs, cheer for each other screaming their

lungs out and when a gymnast performs a difficult skills well,

you can see the smiles and the cheer of joy in all the gymnasts

of the team.  The crowd senses that joy and loves it.  At least I

do.  BTW, Lori Strong has not water down her routines.  In fact,

her bar routine at NCAA Nationals in April was more difficult

than the one she performed at the Barcelona Olympic Games.  Her

routine was highlighted by a pike jager ("E"), giant full and a

gorgeous double layout dismount ("E").  For next year she is

planning to have a pike jager, hop giant full ("E"), reverse

hecht and double layout dismount.  Very impressive for someone

who could be consider "Madonish" for her sexy poses.  But that is

her personality and she does not have to hide it anymore because

she is competing in NCAA.  She is also 23 years old and she still

throwing very high level of gymnastics.

 

Raul -- Go Bulldogs!!!!

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 94 20:26:54 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: NCAA Gymnasts

 

>And as far as Tammy Marshall goes, anybody who has seen her can tell you she

had more than just a smile. She had talent, particularly on floor. Her first

pass was a brilliant Arabian double-front and when she went head-to-head with

some of the *world's* best at World University Games, she took second.

 Not too shabby.<

 

Well I don't know about Worlds best . . . Beedicte Everad who has a very nice

set for a Belgian girl had never even come close to an Int'l floor final and

she won at Uni games. Stovbchatayia who has had the same routine since 1987

 (though she's removed most of the choregraphy to allow more time to stand in

the corner) and who pauses in the corner long enough to read "War and Peace"

got the bronze. Stobs has *never* even been close to a FX final. World's

best? Nah, I don't think so.

 

My smiling point was if that is a genuine smile (Tammy Marshell and just

about any other NCAA girl) of enjoyment then I am the queen of  Sheeba and

all further posts may be addressed to me as "Susan her royal highness and

master of all she surveys" ;-)

 

As for being relaxed; yeah the NCAA girls are far more relaxed then your

average elites but I think that comes with age (Ever seen a hotel bar at

Worlds? You can't move for the guys getting drunk . . . night before men's AA

or not). Even NCAA girls are still twice as tense as your avergae male

gymnast. Also, and this is *not* a condemation just a thought, most NCAA

girls were elites or level 10's that never quite made it on the national team

. . . maybe it's because they lacked that rather physcotic desire to obey and

train that most Int'l female athletes have and are therefore less tense to

begin with.

 

I don't really have anything against NCAA gymnastics but it is *not*  at the

level of International gym.  We do see some cool stuff . . . and lots of

*very* lame stuff. I mean if Stella comes to UCLA (and maybe Porto?) I'll

trudge up there for meets. Stella, Leah, and Louisa would be a very cool team

for the NCAA team. But to prove my point Leah, who is about the best NCAA out

there, was a very average Int'l gymnast.

 

Susan

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 02:10:57 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Original Moves

 

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tkatchev to one arm giants in the  1979

world championships in Fort Worth, Texas? I am almost sure I have  this on

tape at home.<

 

You are correct sir (madem whatever)! Actually I submited this question so

I'll take all the blame. I really had read that it is was Li Ning . . . Li

Ning did a one arm giant combination in '82 which he was the first tro do

apparently (got it out of "Flick Flack" and I don't really speak German).

Tkatchev did both front  (1/2 piraquette into) and back one arms in Fort

Worth. Hmm...wonder if that makes him the one that has themost moves named

after him. That's four I can think of. Anyone know who'd have more? Doesn't

Kelly Garisson have three or four for the women?

 

Susan

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 94 01:25:16 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: PR Cup

 

Ack -- this meet was incredibly long due to a shortage of judges.  We judged

fast, but with enough judges for only 2 events at once and 25 girls

competing, it was a marathon.  I saw women's UB and FX in great detail, since

I was judging, but it means I saw nothing else.

 

So, I'll post results and all after tomorrow's finals, but quickly, Erick

Lopez from Cuba won the men's, with Victor Colon of Puerto Rico 2nd and

another Cuban 3rd.  The Kazakhs (Alexei Dimitrenko and Valery Mass--oh I

forget--ov) were in the top 6, but since they didn't win, we didn't need the

anthem tonight. :)  Which was good b/c we didn't have it (a whole 'nother

story) but there's still tomorrow...

 

Some Romanian kid won the girls.  I think it was Mirela Turgulan, but I was

socializing during the awards ceremony, so I didn't see which one won.  The

other is Alexandra Dobresco, so it was one of the two.  Denisse Lopez from

Mexico was second (*nice* double layout!), and an American was third.

 Kazakhstan sent Evdokimova, but she was disappointing.  Disastrous bars.

 

:)

Adriana

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 94 00:05:21 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Trivia Answers - #17 Original Moves

 

The long awaited Answers!

 

1.  Who was the first lady to perform in competition the triple back dismount

from uneven bars?  In what meet did this happen?

 

Alexandra Sorokina, Russia; 1992 Junior Europeans

 

2.  Who was the first person to compete one arm giant swings?  At what meet

did this happen?

 

Li Ning, PRC; 1982 World Cup

 

3.  Who was the first woman to perform a double front off UB?

 

Sarah Mercer, GBR

 

4.  In what meet did Natalia Yurchenko first compete her namesake vault?

 

1982 World Cup

 

5.  Name the first person to compete a double twisting Yurchenko?  At what

meet?

 

Vera Kolesnikova, URS; 1986 Goodwill Games

 

6.  What is the (Marcia) Frederick?

 

A stalder right to a full pirohette on bars.

 

7.  What move on UB is listed in the Code as a 'Fabrichnova' ?

 

Double-twisting double back

 

8.  Who was the first person to connect release moves?  What moves?

 

Alexei Tikonkikh, URS; Tkatchev and Geinger

 

9.  What new move did Tatiana Groshkova introduce at the 1990 Europeans?

 

Back handspring sideways on BB

 

10.  What two new women's BB moves were introduced by members of medal

winning teams at the 1991 World Championships?

 

Betty Okino - triple turn

Lavinia Milosovici - Chen mount

 

Hope you had fun!

 

Also, if you've gotten this far and feel like it, e-mail me and tell me how

often you'd like to see these Trivia Quizzes.

 

Mara

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 21:54:28 -0500 (CDT)

From: <***@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu>

Subject: Trivia Answers - #17 Original Moves

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tkatchev to one arm giants in the

1979 world championships in Fort Worth, Texas? I am almost sure I have

this on tape at home.  Of course, Gordon Maddux may have called this

trick a "flibidygibbit".

 

And by the way, I saw a Chinese girl compete a one arm giant, and then a

one arm reverse hecht on bars in November 1987 Chinese Sports Fest in

Shenzhen. But she missed her kip afterwords, and didn't make finals...go

figure. 

 

>

> 2.  Who was the first person to compete one arm giant swings?  At what meet

> did this happen?

>

> Li Ning, PRC; 1982 World Cup

>

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 94 03:16:55 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Trivia Stuff

 

>Who was the first lady to perform in competition the triple back dismount

from uneven bars?  In what meet did this happen?

Alexandra Sorokina, Russia; 1992 Junior Europeans<

 

Svetlana Kozlova did this in 1989 Moscow News (Yes, I know that News isn't an

"official" comp for who dunnit purposes) and Dina Kochetkova also did it in

1991. I'm not sure if she made it in comp. but it was much talked about by

the Sovs . . . her triple and Fab's double double. They did the '91 circuit

together . . . along with Shugerva, Ivankov, &Vassielenko

 

As for Groshkova, she did do a double full-in in 1990 but Silivas did it back

in 1988 (it was a double full-in and not full-in full-out right? Anyway, it's

all 2 flips and 2 twists and at least in my book that's close enough).

Several men have done it (Anybody know the first was?) and I'm not even sure

if Daniela was the first girl.  If Beth (who I'd a thunk knew more then I)

was refering to the Fabrichnova comment then just to make it clear it's a

double double off uneven bars.  Also are we so sure that Groshie was the

first to do the slow FF layout step out/fast back walkover (whatever you feel

it is . . . "backhandspring" is a strong term)  crosswise on BB . . . to her

feet that is?

 

 

Susan

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 94 12:42:23 EDT

From: <***@freenet.scri.fsu.edu>

Subject: Trivia Stuff

 

 

> As for Groshkova, she did do a double full-in in 1990 but Silivas did it back

> in 1988 (it was a double full-in and not full-in full-out right? Anyway, it's

> all 2 flips and 2 twists and at least in my book that's close enough).

> Several men have done it (Anybody know the first was?) and I'm not even sure

> if Daniela was the first girl.  If Beth (who I'd a thunk knew more then I)

> was refering to the Fabrichnova comment then just to make it clear it's a

> double double off uneven bars.  Also are we so sure that Groshie was the

> first to do the slow FF layout step out/fast back walkover (whatever you feel

> it is . . . "backhandspring" is a strong term)  crosswise on BB . . . to her

> feet that is?

>

Silivas performed a full in full out.There are a variety of ways that

you can do a double twisting double back.I've seen 1 1/2 in 1/2

out,1/2 in 1 1/2 out,etc.It's the same skill but most people(myself

included)find a double full in a little harder.

 

Aleftina Priakhina(is that spelling right Beth?)did a double twisting

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 14:17:47 EDT

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: USGF

 

Hi,

 I am a certified USGF competitor in NY. I would like to know

the Qualifying scores ('94,'95) for classes 5 and 6.

 

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 08:59:38 -0500 (CDT)

From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>

Subject: USOF '94: complete women's AA results

 

This is, of course, via the AP wire.  Note that Kristy Powell got two

9.90's!  She lost the competition on beam - only a 9.20.

 

The event standings are only preliminary.  The top six of each advance

to finals on Sunday.

 

 Women's Gymnastics

 

 All-Around

1, Doni Thompson (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 39.125 points

2, Kristy Powell (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 38.775

3, Jaycie Phelps (South), Greenfield, Ind., 38.675

4, Sarah Balogachh (North), Allentown, Pa., 38.625

5, Kristin Maloney (North), Pen Agryl, Pa., 38.500

6, Kara Fry (North), Nazareth, Pa., 38.400

6, Martha Grubbs (North), Bethlehem, Pa., 38.400

8, Amy Chow (East), San Jose, Calif., 38.275

9, Kellee Davis (West), Cambria Heights, N.Y., 38.250

10, Sarah Cain (North), Grand Island, Neb., 37.950

11, Katie Fitzpatrick (South), Dayton, Ohio, 37.900

12, Kristi Lichey (South), Cincinnati, 37.775

13, Kristin McDermott (North), Allentown, Pa., 37.750

14, Andree Pickens (West), Houston, 37.625

15, Denise Jones (West), Sacramento, Calif., 37.550

16, Monica Flammer (West), Houston, 37.450

17, Summer Reid (East), Sparks, Nev., 37.425

18, Samantha Muhleman (South), Dayton,  Ohio, 37.375

19, Marissa Medal (West), Pompano Beach, Fla., 37.250

20, Ashley Kever (West), Austin, Texas, 37.025

21, Raegan Tomasek (South), Mystic Beach, N.Y., 36.450

22, Mary Beth Arnold (East), Sparks, Nev., 28.025

23, Tanya Maiers (East), Atlanta, 18.250

 

Vault

 

1, Kristy Powell (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 9.900

2, Sarah Cain (North), Grand Island, Neb., 9.875

3, Martha Grubbs (North), Bethlehem, Pa., 9.800

4, Kara Fry (North), Nazareth, Pa., 9.775

5, Doni Thompson (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 9.725

6, tie, Sarah Balogachh (North), Allentown, Pa.

        Kellee Davis (West), Cambria Heights, N.Y., 9.675

8, tie, Kristin Maloney (North), Pen Agryl, Pa.

        Amy Chow (East), San Jose, Calif.

        Raegan Tomasek (South), Mystic Beach, N.Y.

        and Summer Reid (East), Sparks, Nev., 9.625

12, Andree Pickens (West), Houston, 9.600

13, tie, Kristi Lichey (South), Cincinnati

        Jaycie Phelps (South), Greenfield, Ind., 9.575

15, tie, Denise Jones (West), Sacramento, Calif.

        Kristin McDermott (North), Allentown, Pa., 9.550

17, Marissa Medal (West), Pompano Beach, Fla., 9.500

18, Katie Fitzpatrick (South), Dayton, Ohio, 9.450

19, Ashley Kever (West), Austin, Texas, 9.375

20, Mary Beth Arnold (East), Sparks, Nev., 9.350

21, Monica Flammer (West), Houston, 9.300

22, Samantha Muhleman (South), Dayton, Ohio, 8.975

Tanya Maiers (East), Atlanta, injured, did not compete

 

Uneven Bars

1, Doni Thompson (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 9.850

2, Kristy Powell (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 9.775

3, Andree Pickens (West), Houston, 9.750

4, tie, Katie Fitzpatrick (South), Dayton, Ohio

        Sarah Balogachh (North), Allentown, Pa.

        Marissa Medal (West), Pompano Beach, Fla.

        and Kellee Davis (West), Cambria Heights, N.Y., 9.700

8, Kristin Maloney (North), Pen Agryl, Pa., 9.675

9, tie, Martha Grubbs (North), Bethlehem, Pa.

        Jaycie Phelps (South), Greenfield, Ind., 9.650

11, tie, Denise Jones (West), Sacramento, Calif.

        Kristin McDermott (North), Allentown, Pa.

        and Monica Flammer (West), Houston, 9.625

14, Summer Reid (East), Sparks, Nev., 9.575

15, Kara Fry (North), Nazareth, Pa., 9.525

16, Samantha Muhleman (South), Dayton, Ohio, 9.350

17, Sarah Cain (North), Grand Island, Neb., 9.150

18, tie, Tanya Maiers (East), Atlanta

        Amy Chow (East), San Jose, Calif., 9.100

20, Ashley Kever (West), Austin, Texas, 9.000

21, Kristi Lichey (South), Cincinnati, 8.950

22, Raegan Tomasek (South), Mystic Beach, N.Y., 8.650

Mary Beth Arnold (East), Sparks, Nev., did not compete

 

Balance Beam

1, Amy Chow (East), San Jose, Calif., 9.800

2, Jaycie Phelps (South), Greenfield, Ind., 9.750

3, Sarah Balogachh (North), Allentown, Pa., 9.725

4, Doni Thompson (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 9.700

5, Samantha Muhleman (South), Dayton, Ohio, 9.600

6, tie, Kara Fry (North), Nazareth, Pa.

        Kristi Lichey (South), Cincinnati

        Monica Flammer (West), Houston, 9.575

9, Kristin Maloney (North), Pen Agryl, Pa., 9.500

10, tie, Kristin McDermott (North), Allentown, Pa.

        Sarah Cain (North), Grand Island, Neb., 9.450

12, Martha Grubbs (North), Bethlehem, Pa., 9.400

13, Katie Fitzpatrick (South), Dayton, Ohio, 9.350

14, tie, Kellee Davis (West), Cambria Heights, N.Y.

        Kristy Powell (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 9.200

16, Tanya Maiers (East), Atlanta, 9.150

17, tie, Denise Jones (West), Sacramento, Calif.

        Ashley Kever (West), Austin, Texas, 9.050

19, tie, Summer Reid (East), Sparks, Nev.

        Mary Beth Arnold (East), Sparks, Nev., 9.000

21, Raegan Tomasek (South), Mystic Beach, N.Y., 8.950

22, Andree Pickens (West), Houston, 8.900

23, Marissa Medal (West), Pompano Beach, Fla., 8.500

 

Floor Exercise

1, Kristy Powell (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 9.900

2, Doni Thompson (East), Colorado Springs, Colo., 9.850

3, Amy Chow (East), San Jose, Calif., 9.750

4, tie, Kristin Maloney (North), Pen Agryl, Pa.

        Jaycie Phelps (South), Greenfield, Ind., 9.700

6, tie, Mary Beth Arnold (East), Sparks, Nev.

        Kristi Lichey (South), Cincinnati

        and Kellee Davis (West), Cambria Heights, N.Y., 9.675

9, Ashley Kever (West), Austin, Texas, 9.600

10, tie, Marissa  Medal (West), Pompano Beach, Fla.

        Martha Grubbs (North), Bethlehem, Pa., 9.550

12, tie, Kara Fry (North), Nazareth, Pa.

        Sarah Balogach (North), Allentown, Pa., 9.525

14, Sarah Cain (North), Grand Island, Neb., 9.475

15, Samantha Muhleman (South), Dayton, Ohio, 9.450

16, Katie Fitzpatrick (South), Dayton, Ohio, 9.400

17, Andree Pickens (West), Houston, 9.375

18, Denise Jones (West), Sacramento, Calif., 9.325

19, tie, Raegan Tomasek (South), Mystic Beach, N.Y.

        Summer Reid (East), Sparks, Nev., 9.225

21, Kristin McDermott (North), Allentown, Pa., 9.125

22, Monica Flammer (West), Houston, 8.950

Tanya Maiers (East), Atlanta, did not compete

 

Team Standings

1, North (Sarah Balogach, Allentown, Pa.

        Kristin McDermott, Allentown, Pa.

        Sarah Cain, Grand Island, Neb.

        Martha Grubbs, Bethlehem, Pa.

        Kristin Maloney, Pen Agryl, Pa.

        Kara Fry, Nazareth, Pa.), 192.400

2, East (Tanya Maiers, Atlanta

        Amy Chow, San Jose, Calif.

        Summer Reid, Sparks, Nev.

        Doni Thompson, Colorado Springs, Colo.

        Kristy Powell, Colorado Springs, Colo.

        Mary Beth Arnold, Sparks, Nev.), 190.875

3, West (Andree Pickens, Houston

        Kellee Davis, Cambria Heights, N.Y.

        Denise Jones, Sacramento, Calif.

        Ashley Kever, Austin, Texas

        Monica Flammer, Houston

        Marissa Medal, Pompano Beach, Fla.), 189.400

4, South, (Kristi Lichey, Cincinnati

        Katie Fitzpatrick, Dayton, Ohio

        Samantha Muhleman, Dayton, Ohio

        Jaycie Phelps, Greenfield, Ind.

        Raegan Tomasek, Mystic Beach, N.Y.), 188.175

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 22:23:20 -0500 (CDT)

From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>

Subject: USOF '94: men's events

 

US Olympic Festival

St Louis, MO

 

results from the men's event finals, via the AP wire:

 

Floor Exercise

1, Jay Thornton, Augusta, Ga., 9.450

2, Bill Roth, Mohegan Lake, N.Y., 9.400

3, Steve McCain, Houston, 9.350

4, Mihai Bagiu, Albuquerque, N.M., 9.100

5, Bo Haun, Springfield, Mo., 9.100

6, Spencer Slaton, Atlanta, 8.950.

 

Pommel Horse

1, Bagiu 9.650

2, McCain 9.250

3, Haun 9.050

4, Jeff Lutz, Fort Worth, Texas, 8.450

5, Tim Darlymple, Tracy, Calif., 7.650

6, Garry Denk (East), Iowa City, Iowa, 7.250.

 

Still Rings

1, Lutz 9.500

2, Denk 9.300

3, Rob Kieffer, Austin, Texas, 9.500

4, Haun 9.000

5, Roth 8.800

6, Thornton 8.700.

 

Vault

1, McCain 9.550

2, Roth 9.500

3, Lutz 9.400

4, Kieffer 9.300

5, Larry Johns, Tulsa, Okla.,9.200

6, John MacReady San Diego, 8.550.

 

Parallel Bars

1, Roth 9.300

1, McCain 9.300

1, Kieffer 9.300

4, Haun 9.150

5, Thornton Ga., 9.100

6, Lutz 8.750.

 

Horizontal Bar

1, Bagiu 9.350

2, McCain 9.350

3, Lutz 9.300

4, Roth 9.100

5, Haun 9.050

6, Kieffer 8.750.

 

McCain, re the cut of the UCLA program: "At first I was very

disappointed. But I decided it was OK ...  because I can train for the

Olympics, the world championships, I can train for any meet they send

me on."

 

McCain medaled in every event he qualified for.

 

Yet More McCain: "I'm very happy with what I did. I've been

inconsistent my whole career, but I'm finally getting to the point

where even if I'm having trouble, I can pull out a good routine.

That's all I can ask for right now."

 

Notes on Jeff Lutz from a blurb the AP printed a couple days ago:

 

Lutz's sister, Tara, gave birth to a baby girl on Thursday night (AA

competition) -- since his family couldn't reach him on the floor, they

had an announcement put on the PA system to deliver the good news.

 

Lutz retired in 1992 but resumed training in October of 93.  He flew

his parents in from Ft. Worth for this competition, telling them that

he was coaching one of the girls' teams.  Needless to say, they were

probably most surprised to see him not only competing, but medalling!

 

Rachele

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 23:40:08 -0500 (CDT)

From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>

Subject: USOF '94: women's AA

 

US Olympic Festival

St. Louis, Missouri

 

Women's AA

 

1. Doni Thompson (CO Aerials) 39.125 (9.85 on FX and UB)

2. Kristy Powell (CO Aerials) 38.775

3. Jaycie Phelps (? Fairfield, OH) 38.675

|

9. Kellee Davis (Am Twisters)

 

Tom Forster, CO Aerials coach: "We have a definite plan. We have 23

months to the Olympic trials. It's really been a four-year plan. We're

in the middle of it, but we don't want to divulge too much of it in

case it doesn't work."

 

Thompson: "It's great because it's our first Olympic Festival. Last

year we were both hurt."

 

Thompson, re the 96 Olympics: "I don't get butterflies, but I think

about it every day in my prayers and thoughts. It's my goal."

 

Thompson, re the hard part of competition: "To stay up and not get

tense, I have to talk to people or I get all tense."

 

Powell, on training with Thompson: "It works for both of us. It's the

same way in competition.  We hope the other does well and that you do

well."

 

Powell and Thompson will be competing in the senior division this

August at Nationals.

 

Kellee Davis fell on her beam mount, thus dropping to ninth place.

 

Btw, USOF gymnastics will also be on TV on Sunday, 9pm EST, on Prime

S.N.

 

Rachele

 

------------------------------

 

End of gymn Digest

******************************