gymn
Digest
Mon, 11 Jul 94 Volume 2 :
Issue 147
Today's Topics:
A note on trivia fact checking
Boginskaya
Bontas Compulsory Note
Compulsories (5 msgs)
Kazakhstan Anthem - my saga
Male Judges of Women Gymn... (3 msgs)
PR Cup
Svetlanta Boginskya
USOF '94: attendance figures
USOF
'94: men's AA -- again
USOF '94: women's EF results
USOF on TV
USOF Women's Team/AA
This is a digest of the
gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 10 Jul 94 16:15:51 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: A note on trivia
fact checking
It has been suggested to me that I'm will be turning
myself into a bullseye
target
by putting myself into the position of fact checker.
As I don't feel like fielding
massive quantities of mail on this stuff, I
have
decided to go back to the system that was used before I took up the
Trivia
reigns. I'll include a list of
contributors in the note. If there
is
a dispute, you can discuss it directly with the
author of the question.
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 11 Jul 94 12:22:59 EDT
From: <***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject:
Boginskaya
Boginskaya was
a better tumbler than we'll ever know. Nancy Raymond
(correct
me if I'm wrong here Nancy!) told me that at podium
training for the
1990 Goodwill Games she was throwing double layouts on
floor! But once again,
she didn't compete
them...
Beth
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 11 Jul 94 08:40:18 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Bontas Compulsory Note
Someone mentioned Bontas' beam score again that I (& Nancy) brought up.
Just
to clarify . . . Cristina received a 9.9 in the final
rotation of the final
round where she was the
final competitor (the last on beam and almost if not
*the*
last in the round) of the Barcelona (not '91 as someone, sorry can't
remember who, mentioned) Olympics compusory
sessions. She had 4 *major*
bobbles and was tight
and scared throughout (not that her beam compo is ever
that
great but here it was dead awful). She also should have *automatically*
lost 2 tenths for failing to connect the major flight
element in the series
with the sisson
(it was a sisson right?). Anyway she didn't and got a 9.9
the highest beam compo (tied I think; though I don't know
with whom) of the
'92 Games.
In 1991
Cristina was likewise gifted with a 9.95 on the FX compo where she
had decent amplitude but was messy throughout and had
nothing *that* special
to offer. (Hadarean had the best FX compo in both Barcelona and Indy
to my
eys and Chussy has the highest full you'll ever see). She tied Boginskaya for
the highest
compo FX score fo the meet. Bogie, IMHO, is a compo
genius so I
don't really mind her high score
though I'm not sure I'd qualify her the best
but
Cristina obviously benefited from being the "best" Romanian.
Susan
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 10 Jul 94 18:16:15 EDT
From: <***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject:
Compulsories
I know I'm going back to an old topic, but I was too busy to write my
"essay" on comps when everyone else was
discussing it. First of all, I am
definitely in favor
of keeping them, for all the reasons everyone else said
(demonstrating mastery of the basics, separating the mediocre
from the good
and the good from the great, etc.)
But I also agree with all the people who
mentioned
how politics skews the scores, especially with regard to the
Romanians in recent years. Susan was right when she said the
whole Romanian
team did the compulsory beam
routine wrong in '89, but no deductions were
taken,
presumably because the girls were wearing Romanian leotards and that
influenced the judges (after all, the Romanians are supposed
to be "masters" of
the beam). And it
indeed was ridiculous that Bontas got the highest
beam compo
score in '91. So I was trying to
figure out a way to eliminate the political
problem,
and came up with sort of a farfetched idea, but I thought I'd run it
by everyone. I think the FIG had the right idea when it
split up the teams in
compos, but where it made a
mistake was allowing the coaches to still select
the
order the girls competed in. So even though there'd be a Russian, a
Romanian,
an American etc. in every round, all the judges are
going to know
that they're seeing the
"weaker" girls in the earlier rounds, and that can't
help but influence their scoring. So, first of all, I think
the order of
competition in compulsories should
be TOTALLY random. If there are 100
competitors
in a meet, put 100 numbers in a hat and have the girls draw them.
Whatever
number they draw, that will be their number for the competition and
the order in which they compete in compos. Yes, this allows
for the possibility
that a whole team could draw
early-round numbers, but if the judging is truly
fair
and objective, this shouldn't matter. To help make it fair and objective,
I
think there should be a competition leotard for compos, so all the gymnasts
are wearing the same thing and won't get scored
on the basis of what country's
leotard they're
wearing. I think the girls should compete by number ONLY in
compos (i.e., don't flash the girls' name on the scoreboard,
because that could
easily tell a judge where she's
from. As for the spectators who want to know
who's
who, the competitors and their numbers would be listed in the program).
Of
course, it's true that the judges will recognize the big names, say Miller,
Milosovici, Gogean, etc., since they know their faces, but they WON'T
know the
lesser known gymnasts from gymnastics
powerhouse countries. Since all numbers
are
random, if Milo is 34, that wouldn't necessarily mean 33 and 35 are also
Romanians, for example. I know doing something like this
would be very
complicated and perhaps confusing,
but it seems to me that it would eliminate
at
least some of the politically based scoring and the tendency to score low
in
the early rounds. With a completely random
competition order, the judges would
have to score
the routine on the basis of the routine, not on the basis of
"well, this is a Romanian in round 1, so she's their weakest,
but since she's a
Romanian she must be good, so score it high but not TOO
high, since 5 better
girls are coming
later." With a random system, the very best girl could be in
round 1. So the judges would have to score the routine on
its merits, not on
what round it is. And with
everyone in the same leotard, in most cases they
wouldn't
know what country the girl was representing. I think this could
eliminate a lot of political scores. What does everyone else
think about this
idea?
Beth
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 10 Jul 94 20:55:29 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject:
Compulsories
>What does everyone else think about this idea?
I
think it's a fascinating idea and, if ever implemented, could work.
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever
see compos again.
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 10 Jul 94 21:30:04 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject:
Compulsories
Beth:
I
love your ideas! Making the gymnasts all wear the same leos and
identifying
them by number is a great, great idea.
You should send a letter to FIG. I
think it could actually work.
--- Ronald
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 10 Jul 1994 21:52:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject:
Compulsories
Sorry to be the person who rains on the parade, but I see
a few snags
in the proposed idea.
First
of all, before addressing the snags, though, one question -- why
would this uniform idea only apply to compulsories? There is
discrimination
in optionals, too, of course.
Well, to list
my snags, firstly I'd like to say that I think judging
bias
goes way beyond a judge recognizing a gymnast's leotard/jersey.
One of the
implied goals with the uniform leos/jerseys is that
a
gymnast would somehow be anonymous. I think this is impossible. All
of the
gymnasts with a "name" will be recognized by the judges no
matter what they wear -- they are the ones who are currently
being
overscored, and
they will continue to be overscored -- thus, the
problem remains.
Now, addressing the issue of
lesser known gymnasts from the power
countries. For instance, say an Amanda Borden or
Larissa Fontaine.
These gymnasts have coaches, right? Are the coaches supposed to wear
standard warm up suits too? What if Octavian Belu,
certainly
recognized by all judges, is the coach
-- gee, is she Romanian?
Judges attend training sessions and such, too...
they see the gymnasts
training together. They can learn who is on what team if
they want
to.
They talk to other judges who of course know the gymnasts from
their countires -- they know what
to expect.
Also, gymnasts (and everyone in the world) of course
display certain
ethnicities by their appearance. I
doubt you'll be confusing a man of
Asian heritage with
one from Africa any day soon.
|Of course, it's true that the
judges will recognize the big names, say Miller,
|Milosovici, Gogean, etc., since
they know their faces, but they WON'T know the
|lesser
known gymnasts from gymnastics powerhouse countries. Since all numbers
Precisely. Therefore, Miller and Milo and whoever
else will still
receive the benefit of judging
biases... so how did we fix the
problem?
Anyways,
while I support the completely random rotation idea, I don't
think it's possible to disguise a gymnast's nationality by
putting her
in a standard leo,
or him in a standard jersey.
There's so many other
clues -- language,
the coach, warmup jackets and familiarity with
the
gymnast from previous interactions (observing
practice, having judged
the gymnast before, and of
course it's certainly possible that under
this
system the judge will have been slipped a picture of the gymnast
ahead of time to ensure that the judge knows who to look
for). Or,
let's
take the Swiss fans for an example.
Everytime a Swiss gymnast
dismounts, the fans jangle their cowbells and go crazy. That'd be a
pretty
quick clue to a judge right there as to what nationality the
gymnast was.
Also, let's not forget thatt these judges are *in* the gymnastics
world -- they can recognize gymnasts a lot more easily than
most of us
on Gymn. What we might consider an
"unknown," they may have spotted
two
months earlier as an up and comer.
Also, what about the cost of the
uniform? If the FIG requires
everyone to wear the same one, do they then have to pay for
them?
That's an awfully huge expense.
Also, let's not forget that
one of the special things about
international
competition is just that -- it's international. Trying
to
separate a gymnast from his/her country is against the nature of
the competition.
Many gymnasts take pride in competing for their
nation and part of their pride is displayed in wearing their
team
uniform.
Anyways, my whole point
here is that when judges discriminate on the
basis
of nationality, the answer lies in correcting the judges, not
disguising the nationality. Gymnastics tries too often to
"solve"
problems by treating the
symptoms and not the disease. Yes
it does
put teams on a more equal basis to
separate the gymnasts into
individual rounds of
competition for compulsories -- but this does
nothing
to actually directly *solve* the problem of judging bias. It
just
"copes" with it at best... it accomodates
the problem and even
allows it to exist.
The
FIG should study FIFA, the international governing body for
soccer. They seem
to be pretty strict on accurate refereeing. Some
referees
in the World Cup have been "dismissed" for incorrect calls --
actually sent home and replacements found for later
games.
Of course, gymnastics is a subjective sport -- it is impossible
to
expect completely objective scoring with the
sport as it exists now.
Rachele
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 11 Jul 1994 08:57:47 +1000
From: <***@pharm.med.upenn.edu>
Subject:
Compulsories
Excerpts from Rachele:
>Well,
to list my snags, firstly I'd like to say that I think judging
>bias goes way beyond a judge recognizing a gymnast's
leotard/jersey.
>One of the implied goals with the uniform leos/jerseys is that a
>gymnast
would somehow be anonymous. I think
this is impossible. All
>of the gymnasts with a "name" will be recognized
by the judges no
>matter what they wear -- they
are the ones who are currently being
>overscored, and they will continue to be overscored -- thus, the
>problem
remains.
>Also, let's not forget thatt
these judges are *in* the gymnastics
>world --
they can recognize gymnasts a lot more easily than most of us
>on Gymn. What we might consider an
"unknown," they may have spotted
>two
months earlier as an up and comer.
>Also, let's not forget that one of
the special things about
>international
competition is just that -- it's international. Trying
>to
separate a gymnast from his/her country is against the nature of
>the competition.
Many gymnasts take pride in competing for their
>nation and part of their pride is displayed in wearing their
team
>uniform.
>Of course,
gymnastics is a subjective sport -- it is impossible to
>expect completely objective scoring with the sport as it
exists now.
------------------------------------------------------
I
have to agree that judging bias goes well beyond clothes - lets think
about it for a moment.
We have had more discussions on how different moves
are interpreted, there is of course going to be a small -
glaring - problem
here - maybe the judges will
recognize the moves themselves. I
am just a
person who watches gymnastics, but I
recognize so many gymnasts by their
body lines,
hands, walk, run. For example - if
Bill Roth walks across the
floor 200 - 300 feet
away, I can't make out the face, but I know his light
walk
anywhere. These judges have been
watching most of these gymnast since
they were kids, they know them.
Conferences - the romanian judge says, but she did
... the other judges
look at each other - got a
point, and the scores are adjusted.
So now we
have the problem that the judges
influence each other. An extremely
well
respected judge (generally CJ) has a great
deal of influence over the
scores, and that is
often done without malice by the other judges. If you
have
a new person judging with Abie Grossfeld,
guess who's score is the one
that is listened
to?
Compos. are wonderful for somethings, but as one gymnast pointed out to me
- it is time to change.
They are making the routines themselves so damn
difficult
these days that time is not there to perform both routines well.
This time
crunch has had a sever effect for the US where the money is not
handed to the gymnast so that their day can be spent in the
gym. His
(notice
the gymnast is male in this case) feeling is that to really do
compos well he would need to put in at least 4
hours/day. That doesn't
leave much time for putting together a 10 routine - one hell
of a challenge
these days.
I realize that there are those
of you out there who will say that if a
person is
really dedicated -- well -- I can't agree -- gymnast are people,
and after 6 hours in the gym they hurt,and
ache. Most of them want to
retire so that they don't hurt 24 hours/day, can't say I
blame them. Nadia
still has pains in her joints from her days of gymnastics -
that was a
while ago folks. I am sure the ex-gymnasts on this forum
will tell you
that the limit is not the will, but
the physical stress that the body can
take.
Mayland
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994
15:43:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Subject:
Kazakhstan Anthem - my saga
Just
thought I'd relay a cute story to y'all. Since my summer job is
working for the largest undergrad music library in the
nation (in Oberlin,
summer population around
2-3000 people) I struck out on a search for the
Kazakhstan
national anthem. Unfortunately, our reference librarian had the day
off on Friday. And the internet national anthem server
was down for
maintenance on Friday.
So I spent an
interesting time attempting to contact the embassy for
the
name of the piece. No answer. The CIA Factbook was
down as well. Our own
catalog has recordings of
the Lithuanian and Estonian national anthems, so if
y'all
need those in a pinch, let me know. But from all my searching, I now know
the spelling of Kazakhstan very well.
So I can't locate
it, and I'm bummed. On Saturday, I decided to vent by
watching
the CBS coverage of the USOF. The Cleveland CBS affiliate is one of 8
that is defecting to Fox in the fall. So to be snooty now,
they pre-empted
coverage to show, yes, old western
movies.
I'm
now very bummed, so I call my mom in Tucson and tell her to tape it
and told her about my search for the anthem. Turns out in my
haste, I forgot
Alma-Ata is the capital of Kazakhstan, and the sister city
of Tucson. And there
was a Kazakhstani delegation
in town for the weekend for a reception, where
they
did indeed play the national anthem.
MORAL OF THE STORY: in a pinch, call
mom.
Glad
to hear Doni won. Isn't Diaz recovering from an
injury?
Cara
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 11 Jul 94 01:29:30 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Male Judges of
Women Gymn...
Hello!!!!
>To be a
really excellent judge, one needs to have as complete a
>background as possible in the sport. Ideally, a judge should have been a
>competitor, as well as a coach and have
studied the book to the point
>where one knows
it inside and out. There are
numerous occasions where
>the rules demand that
you use your "gymnastics sense" to properly
>evaluate something that is not specifically delineated in
the code. Those
>judges who were also
competitors at one time, along with the other
>attributes
necessary will hopefully be better able to appreciate and
>correctly evaluate such occurrences. While being of the same gender as
>the competitors does not guarantee competitve
background, being of the
>opposite gender
certainly negates the opportunity for such experience.
>While one could equate certain
skills from men's to women's gymnastics
>and
from women's to men's gymnastics, it should hopefully serve the
>athlete more fairly if the judge can have this appreciation
and
>"gymnastics sense."
Several questions. How can you explain that in the United
States males
are allow to judge at the highest
level? If being of the opposite
sex, a
judge is not able to fully evaluate a
routine, what are all those elite and
level 10
judges doing in the USGF? Also,
many of the high level female
judges in the United
States were never gymnasts our coaches.
So what are
they doing judging if they are
not able to understand a routine because they
have
never done it? In fact, just to
give you an example I know a great and
very well
respected judge that was never a gymnast our a coach but she is a
brevet judge for the United States. Her name is Marian Dykes. I think your
argument
is weak. I think that I am capable
to do as good as a job as
anybody. Also, I have studied gymnastics for
about 16 years. I know the
sport. I am not
pretending to be a brevet judge without paying my dues. In
fact I
am not searching to be a brevet judge at this moment but I will be
happier if I knew that I could if I want it to. Any way, I know what FIG
thinks. I know
the reason why FIG thinks their policies are good. But do
you
agree with the FIG policies?
Remember that you live in a country where
gender
equality is argue everyday. My
final note is that even sccoer, the
most popular sport in the world and very male oriented
accepted women as
refferee. The first women to be a FIFA (Sccoer world organization) referee
is
a lady from Brazil. Gymnastics
should learn and come out of the dark
ages. Also, in the sport of figure skating
males are allow to judge women
figure skaters. It seam that figure skating has found
out that gender is not
a variable when it come
down to fairly judge a routine.
Raul -- Go Bulldogs!!!
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 11 Jul 1994 09:20:56 +1000
From: <***@pharm.med.upenn.edu>
Subject:
Male Judges of Women Gymn...
. It seam that figure skating has found
out that gender is not
>a variable when it come
down to fairly judge a routine.
>
>Raul -- Go Bulldogs!!!
----------------------------------------------------
any women judging men's figure skating?
I think
that the USGF has a lot more need for cross sex juding
than does
the FIG, plus USGF certainly has more
money for bringing in judges.
The
hotel costs are high, and when you
bring in one male judge instead of 4
females, you
now have 3 rooms instead of 2 for a long meet, most FIGs are,
you have a lot of extra costs (yes, I realize that more than
4 judges are
brought in, but this is to make a
general point).
I don't see many women judging men's meets either -
to be honest, I
personally have never seen a woman
judge a men's meet. Is there a
shortage
of female judges and not male judges -
any one have numbers on this?
I am sure that the equity issue has
lots to do with this also. We are
the
only country that stresses equity to this
level, and in many ways are very
unsucessful,
and it really shows.
Mayland
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 11 Jul 1994 09:55:41 -0400 (edt)
From: <***@dorsai.dorsai.org>
Subject:
Male Judges of Women Gymn...
> . It seam
that figure skating has found out that gender is not
> >a variable when it come down to fairly judge a routine.
> >
> >Raul -- Go
Bulldogs!!!
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
>
> any women judging men's figure skating?
>
> I
don't see many women judging men's meets either - to be honest, I
> personally have never seen a woman judge a men's meet. Is there a shortage
> of female judges and not male judges - any one have numbers
on this?
>
>
> I am sure that the equity issue has lots
to do with this also. We are
the
> only country that stresses equity to this
level, and in many ways are very
> unsucessful,
and it really shows.
>
> Mayland
>
>
There are a few
women judging men's gymnastics; in fact a few
women
have earned National Cards. The
reality is that internationally
you need both background
and *reputation* to be an effective judge.
And
even in the US there is the desire to
promote outstanding former gymnasts
to be
international judges if they so desire and put the time in to
become a proficient and certified judge.
Internationally,
almost all Brevet judges (men) were former
gymnasts,
and at the higher level. Many have competed against each other
in their own generation. Whether egalitarian or not, this is
a reality
that must be dealt with. It takes twice the work and preparation
for
someone not of that background to be
successful at the job at a meet (and
not to say
it can't be done).
------------------------------
Date: Sun,
10 Jul 94 23:01:38 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: PR Cup
Hey
folks, c'est moi
again.
The meet used C-II rules on Friday and C-III rules
Saturday.
Men's AA:
1. Eric Lopez CUB 55.10 (again the only one at
9.0+)
2. Victor Colon PUR 53.85
3. Luis Enrique Nunez CUB 53.70
4.
Pedro Tort PUR 53.05
5. Alexei Dimitrenko KAZ
51.90
6. Diego Lizardi PUR 51.80
7. Valery Matrossov KAZ 51.50 (hey, just like Van Halen ;-) )
7. Eduardo Haro MEX
51.50
9. Jose Solano MEX 51.45
10. Jason Papp CAN 51.25
Because
the men had full teams for the Worlds qualifier earlier in the week,
there were several gymnasts competing who didn't count. The only one who
would've
been in the top 10 was Lazaro Lamela
(CUB) at 52.50. Damian Merino
(CUB)
had a 50.55 with a 5.00 HB; don't ask me what this dude's problem is
with HB.
Women's AA:
1. Mirela
Tugurlan ROM 38.275
2. Denisse
Lopez MEX 38.112
3. Jenni Beathard
USA 37. 737
4. Rachael Rochelli USA 37.40
5.
Nathalie Barrington CAN 37.225
6. Alexandra Dobrescu
ROM 36.887
7. Judith Cabasos MEX 36.275
7.
Irina Evdokimova KAZ 36.275
9. Aida Canovas PUR 36.037
10. Veronique Leclerc CAN
35.737
There were some extra girls, too, of whom only Mohini Bhardwaj (USA)
would've
been top-10 at 37.825.
Men's
Event Finals:
Because I was busy with the girls, I saw only 3 men's
events (FX, PH, V)
FX:
1. Eric Lopez CUB 9.15
1. Valery Matrossov KAZ 9.15
3. Damian Merino CUB 9.10
Highlights
were Lopez's high double-double (tucked) and some
worthwhile front
tumbling, Matrossov's
2 double layouts (a little froggy, though), and
Merino's style and some nice front tumbling too. Isidro Ibarrondo
(ARG) did
a side 1-3/4. Most everyone else had full-ins and the
ubiquitous front
tumbling was generally not that
well executed.
PH:
1. Eric Lopez CUB 9.05
2. Alexei Dimitrenko KAZ 8.85
3. Victor Colon PUR 8.75
Sorry,
guys, I don't know enough PH to say anything about it.
R:
1.
Damian Merino CUB 9.40 (highest men's score)
2. Victor Colon PUR 9.20
2.
Uwe Billerbeck GER
9.20
2. Pedro Tort PUR 9.20
V:
1. Eric Lopez CUB 9.375
2.
Victor Colon PUR 9.10
3. Diego Lizardi PUR
9.05
This was my favorite part of the whole meet because Eric did his Kasamatsu
double full. That would be *3* twists, folks.
PB:
1.
Alexei Dimitrenko KAZ (I think; it was one of the
two, anyway)
I'm missing these results.
HB:
1. Pedro Tort PUR
9.15
1. Jose Solano MEX 9.15
3. Eric Lopez CUB 9.05
High drama was provided by Pedro Tort hitting the last routine of
his quite
successful competitive career to
win what, together with rings, has always
been his
best event. There was a teary
farewell afterwards. Pedro is
retiring to study medicine.
Women's Event
Finals:
This was a pretty high-level meet. The Romanians especially are good;
watch
for them.
V:
1. Mirela Tugurlan ROM 9.475 (Y
layout arabian; tucked Tsuk
full)
2. Mohini Bhardwaj
USA (layout Y full; tucked Tsuk full)
3. Rachael Rochelli USA (layout Y full; tucked handspring front)
(I'm
missing these scores, so I copied what the paper said)
The newspaper
described Mirela's Y as a "handspring full-in in
layout
position" :-) It was iffy between an arabian and a back layout 1/2.
Evdokimova's
handspring layout front was not bad, but archy and
she took
like five steps back landing it (2nd
vault was just layout Tsuk).
Unfortunately, Denisse
Lopez scratched. She does, I'm told
(didn't get to
see it on Fri.), a handspring
layout front that beats the pants off
Evdokimova's. Dobrescu vaulted a tucked handspring front 1/2 (iffy
between
that and a Cuervo)
and a tucked Tsuk full. Are Tsuk fulls are coming back
in? 4 of 8 finalists did one (in a way, 4 of
4 -- everyone who had a choice,
that is. 2 finalists were definitely not good
enough to have the choice of
doing it, I'm not
sure about Rachael, but I kinda doubt she can do it,
and I
assume Evdokimova
did a layout because she can't do more, though that's kind
of surprising).
UB
1. Jenni
Beathard USA 9.75
2. Nathalie Barrington CAN
3.
Judith Cabasos MEX
(I'm missing these
scores, too)
Uprises were rampant, being a D, and
if connected with another D, like a
release, is
0.2 bonus. Nathalie had 2 eagle
giants.
BB:
1. Alexandra Dobrescu ROM
9.70
2. Mirela Turgulan
ROM 9.50
3. Mohini Bhardwaj
USA 9.45
Front tucks, Omelianchiks, ff layouts, and double backs galore. Maybe the
most
unusual thing was Rachael Rochelli's nice triple full
dismount, but she
fell here. Also Mohini's side somi. I heard about someone who did a
handspring front, but she wasn't in finals.
FX:
1.
Mirela Tugurlan ROM
9.675
1. Alexandra Dobrescu ROM 9.675
3. Denisse Lopez MEX 9.425
3. Irina Evdokimova
KAZ 9.425
Mirela's music, unfortunately, was
the theme from Bonanza, but she tumbles
well
(tucked full-in, whip immediate 2-1/2 twist, triple full). I think
Alexandra danced the best
(you might be impressed with her for a Romanian,
Susan :-)
), but she relies a lot on front tumbling. And expression is
totally
lacking (on everybody, really), but she's still very young. Denisse
was definitely the most powerful tumbler with a really good
double layout and
a high rudi
(almost makes you believe it deserves to be an E). Evdokimova's
double layout was better than on Friday, and she does a rudi punch back tuck,
a layout
front full, and ends with a triple full.
There were several
full-ins, lots of 2-1/2
twists, and of course the front tumbling.
I was STC (scientific
technical collaborator, i.e. the one who calculates the
start
value; don't ask me who came up with that title) on everything but V,
and I found I really enjoyed it, more than actually
judging.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 11 Jul 94 11:27:45 18000
From: <***@freenet.scri.fsu.edu>
Subject:
Svetlanta Boginskya
I
just remembered that Bogi threw a full in full out at
1987 Druzba.I
know there
are people out there that don't believe me,but
I've
actually seen it.It
was damn nice too.She also warmed it up at the
88
Olympics,but didn't
compete it.
Billy
--
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 10 Jul 1994 18:44:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject:
USOF '94: attendance figures
>From the USOC, the following are
estimated attendance figures for each
session:
Men's AA: 7800
Women's AA:
10000
Men's EF: 8000
Women's
EF: 9600
Rachele
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 10 Jul 1994 18:47:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject:
USOF '94: men's AA -- again
While on the USOC board, I found more
detail of the men's scores from
the AA
session. Posted are the rankings by
event -- the top six went
on to the event finals,
the results of which I posted yesterday.
Floor Exercise
1, Bill
Roth, East, Mohegan Lake, N.Y., 9.650
1, Spencer Slaton, East, Atlanta,
Ga., 9.650
3, Steve McCain, North, Houston, Texas, 9.625
4, Mihai Bagiu, West, Albuquerque,
N.M., 9.600
5, Jay Thornton, South, Augusta, Ga., 9.550
5, Tim Darlymple, East, Tracy, Calif., 9.550
5, Bo Haun, West, Springfield, Mo., 9.550
8, Lindsey Fang,
East, Allentown, Pa., 9.450
9, Rob Kieffer,
South, Austin, Texas, 9.400
10, Larry Johns, North, Tulsa, Okla.,
9.350
10, Josh Birckelbaw, North, Elk Gove,
Calif., 9.350
10, Guard Young, North, Oklahoma City, Okla., 9.350
10,
Garry Denk, East, Iowa City, Iowa, 9.350
14, John
MacReady, North, San Diego, Calif., 9.300
15,
Carey Reddick, West, Paragould, Ark., 9.250
16, Sanjuan
Jones, South, Tallahassee, Fla., 9.200
16, Kendall Scheiss,
West, Sandy, Utah, 9.200
18, Dan Ryssman, South,
Reno, Nev., 9.150
19, Craig Nesbitt, East, Springfield, Mo., 9.000
20,
Jamie Natalie, South, Hockessin, Del., 8.950
21, Mike Dutka,
West, Fairless Hills, Pa., 8.700
22, Jason Furr,
West, Woodbridge, Va., 8.600
22, Jeff Lutz, South, Fort Worth, Texas,
8.600
24, Scott Finkelstein, North, Allentwon,
Pa., 8.500
Pommel Horse
1, Mihai Bagiu, West, Albuquerque, N.M., 9.850
2, Steve McCain,
North, Houston, Texas, 9.750
3, Jeff Lutz, South, Fort Worth, Texas,
9.550
4, Bo Haun, West, Springfield, Mo.,
9.450
5, Garry Denk, East, Iowa City, Iowa., 9.400
6, Tim Darlymple,
East, Tracy, Calif., 9.350
7, Sanjuan Jones,
North, Tulsa, Okla., 9.200
7, Mike Dutka, West,
Fairless Hills, Pa., 9.200
9, Jay Thornton, South, Augusta, Ga., 9.150
10,
Scott Finkelstein, North, Allentown, Pa., 9.000
10, Dan Ryssman,
South, Reno, Nev., 9.000
12, Bill Roth, East, Mohegan Lake, N.Y.,
8.800
13, Kendall Schiess, West, Sandy, Utah,
8.750
14, Lindsey Fang, East, Allentown, Pa., 8.700
15, Rob Kieffer, South, Austin, Texas, 8.650
16, Larry Johns,
North, Tulsa, Okla., 8.550
16, Spencer Slaton, East, Atlanta, Ga.,
8.550
18, Jamie Natalie, South, Hockessin, Del., 8.500
19, Guard Young,
North, Oklahoma City, Okla., 8.400
20, Josh Birckelbaw,
North, Elk Grove, Calif., 8.250
20, Craig Nesbitt, East, Springfield, Mo.,
8.250
22, John MacReady, North, San Diego,
Calif., 7.950
23, Carey Reddick, West, Paragould, Ark., 7.700
24, Jason Furr, West, Woodbridge, Va.,
7.000.
Still Rings
1, Garry Denk,
East, Iowa City, Iowa, 9.725
2, Jeff Lutz, South, Fort Worth, Texas,
9.550
3, Bill Roth, East, Mohegan Lake, N.Y., 9.500
4, Rob Kieffer, South, Austin, Texas, 9.400
4, Bo Haun, West, Springfield, Mo., 9.400
6, Jay Thornton,
South, Augusta, Ga., 9.350
7, Sanjuan Jones,
South, Tallahassee, Fla., 9.300
8, Larry Johns, North, Tulsa, Okla.,
9.200
9, Miahi Bagiu,
West, Albuquerque, N.M., 9.150
10, Josh Birckelbaw,
North, Elk Grove, Calif., 9.100
11, Spencer Slaton, East, Atlanta, Ga.,
8.900
12, Tim Darlymple, East, Tracy, Calif.,
8.850
12, Carey Reddick, West, Paragould, Ark., 8.850
14, Mike Dutka, West, Fairless Hills, Pa., 8.800
14, Lindsey
Fang, East, Allentown, Pa., 8.800
16, Steve McCain, North, Houston, Texas,
8.700
17, Dan Ryssman, South, Reno, Nev, 8.550
18, Jason Furr,
West, Woodbridge, Va., 8.500
19, Scott Finkelstein, North, Allentown, Pa.,
8.300
19, Craig Nesbitt, East, Springfield, Mo., 8.300
21, Jamie
Natalie, South, Hockessin, Del., 8.200
22, John MacReady,
North, San Diego, Calif., 8.150
23, Guard Young, North, Oklahoma City,
Okla., 8.000
24, Kendall Schiess,
West, Sandy Utah, 7.700.
Vault
1, Bill Roth, East, Mohegan
Lake, N.Y., 9.500
2, Jeff Lutz, South, Fort Worth, Texas, 9.450
3,
Larry Johns, North, Tulsa, Okla., 9.350
4, Rob Kieffer,
South, Austin, Texas, 9.250
4, Steve McCain, North, Houston, Texas,
9.250
6, John MacReady, North, San Diego, Calif.,
9.200
7, Mike Dukta, West, Fairless Hills, Pa.,
9.150
7, Bo Haun, West, Springfield, Mo.,
9.150
9, Tim Dalrymple, East, Tracy, Calif.,
9.100
10, Sanjuan Jones, South, Tallahassee,
Fla., 9.050
10, Josh Bircklebaw, North, Oak
Grove, Calif., 9.050
12, Spencer Slaton, East, Atlanta, Ga., 8.950
13,
Garry Denk, East, Iowa City, Iowa, 8.850
13, Jay
Thornton, South, Augusta, Ga., 8.850
15, Guard Young, North, Oklahoma City,
Okla., 8.800
15, Kendall Schiess, West, Sandy,
Utah, 8.800
17, Jason Furr, West, Woodbridge,
Va., 8.750
17, Dan Ryssman, South, Reno, Nev.,
8.750
17, Lindsey Fang, East, Allentown, Pa., 8.750
17, Carey Reddick,
West, Paragould, Ark., 8.750
21, Craig Nesbitt, East, Springfield, Mo.,
8.700
22, Jamie Natalie, South, Hocessin, Del.,
8.550
23, Scott Finkelstein, North, Allentown, Pa., 8.350
24, Mihai Bagiu,
West, Albuquerque, 8.150.
Parallel Bars
1, Bill Roth, East,
Mohegan Lake, N.Y., 9.600
2, Steve McCain, North, Houston, Texas,
9.550
2, Jay Thornton, South, Augusta, Ga., 9.550
2, Bo Haun, West, Springfield, Mo., 9.550
5, Jeff Lutz,
South, Fort Worth, Texas, 9.500
5, Rob Kieffer,
South, Austin, Texas, 9.500
7, Larry Johns, North, Tulsa, Okla., 9.200
8,
Mike Dutka, West, Fairless Hills, Pa., 9.150
9,
Gerry Denk, East, Iowa City, Iowa, 9.100
10,
Spencer Slaton, East, Atlanta, Ga., 9.050
10, Lindsey Fang, East,
Allentown, Pa., 9.050
12, John MacReady, North,
San Diego, Calif., 8.850
13, Josh Birckelbaw,
North, Elk Grove, Calif., 8.800
14, Mihai Bagiu, West, Albuquerque, N.M., 8.750
14, Scott
Finkelstein, North, Allentown, Pa., 8.750
16, Sanjuan
Jones, South, Tallahassee, Fla., 8.550
17, Jamie Natalie, South, Hockessin,
Del., 8.500
17, Guard Young, North, Oklahoma City, Okla., 8.500
19,
Kendall Schiess, West, Sandy, Utah, 8.450
20,
Jason Furr, West, Woodbridge, Va., 8.200
20,
Carey Reddick, West, Paragould, Ark., 8.200
22, Tim Dalrymple,
East, Tracy, Calif., 8.050
23, Dan Ryssman,
South, Reno, Nev., 7.900
24, Craig Nesbitt, East,
Springfield, Mo., 7.800.
Horizontal Bar
1, Miahi Bagiu, West, Albuquerque,
N.M., 9.800
1, Steve McCain, North, Houston, Texas, 9.800
3, Jeff Lutz,
South, Fort Worth, Texas, 9.725
4, Bill Roth, East, Mohegan Lake, N.Y.,
9.650
4, Rob Kieffer, South, Austin, Texas,
9.650
4, Bo Haun, West, Springfield, Mo.,
9.650
7, Garry Denk, East, Iowa City, Iowa,
9.600
7, Jay Thornton, South, Agusta, Ga.,
9.600
7, Spencer Slaton, East, Atlanta, Ga., 9.600
10, Larry Johns,
North, Tulsa, Okla., 9.400
11, Scott Finkelstein, North, Allentown, Pa.,
9.300
12, Dan Ryssman, South, Reno, Nev.,
9.200
13, Josh Birckelbaw, North, Elk Grove,
Calif., 9.150
13, Jamie Natalie, South, Hockessin, Del., 9.150
13, Sanjuan Jones, South, Tallahassee, Fla., 9.150
16,
Lindsey Fang, East, Allentown, Pa., 9.050
17, Kendall Schiess,
West, Sandy, Utah, 9.000
18, Mike Dutka, West,
Fairless Hills, Pa., 8.850
19, Craig Nesbitt, East, Springfield, Mo., 8.800
20,
John MacReady, North, San Diego, Calif., 8.700
21,
Tim Darlymple, East, Tracy, Calif., 8.600
22,
Jason Furr, West, Woodbridge, Va., 8.550
23,
Guard Young, North, Oklahoma City, Okla., 8.500
24, Carey
Reddick, West Paragould, Ark., 8.350.
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 10 Jul 1994 18:39:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject:
USOF '94: women's EF results
Guess what? This is *not* via the AP wire, but rather
straight from
the USOC.
WOMEN'S
GYMNASTICS
INDIVIDUAL EVENT FINALS
Sunday, July 10, 1994, 4 p.m.
Vault
1.
Sarah Cain, Grand Island, Neb. (North), 9.875
2. Kristy Powell, Colorado
Springs, Colo. (East), 9.812
3. Kara Fry, Nazareth, Pa. (North), 9.800
4.
Martha Grubbs, Bethlehem, Pa. (North), 9.775
5. Sarah Balogach,
Allentown, Pa. (North), 9.700
6. Doni Thompson,
Colorado Springs, Colo. (East), 9.687
Uneven Bars
1T. Doni Thompson, Colorado Springs, Colo
(East), 9.875
1T. Kristy Powell, Colorado Springs, Colo. (East), 9.875
3.
Andree Pickens, Houston, Texas (West), 9.825
4. Sarah Balogach,
Allentown, Pa. (North), 9.725
5. Kellee Davis,
Cambria Heights, N.Y. (West), 9.675
6. Katie Fitzpatrick, Dayton, Ohio
(South), 9.650
Balance Beam
1. Doni
Thompson, Colorado Springs, Colo. (East), 9.800
2T. Samantha Muhleman, Dayton, Ohio (South), 9.775
2T. Amy Chow, San
Jose, Calif. (East), 9.775
4. Kara Fry, Nazareth, Pa. (North), 9.275
5.
Jaycie Phelps, Greenfield, Ind. (South), 9.100
6.
Sarah Balogach, Allentown, Pa. (North), 8.950
Floor
Exercise
1. Kellee Davis, Cambria Heights, N.Y.
(West), 9.900
2T. Amy Chow, San Jose, Calif. (East), 9.825
2T. Kristin
Maloney, Pen Agryl, Pa. (North), 9.825
2T. Doni Thompson, Colorado Springs, Colo. (East), 9.825
5.
Kristy Powell, Colorado Springs, Colo. (East), 9.800
6. Jaycie
Phelps, Greenfield, Ind. (South), 9.750
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 11 Jul 94 01:28:33 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: USOF on TV
First
off could someone e-mail me and tell me exactly what, if anything,
Prime
Ticket has shown of the gymnastics? Thanks.
Thoughts on the guys
team/AA . . . I think I love Steve McCain . . . maybe
it's
his hair ;-) Anyway, that was the worst rings routine I have *ever* seen
(it was a 3.6 not an 8.7 but oh well) . He's totally the
American Mogilny.
All the skills, good form
(great feet!), and he can't hit to save his life.
Kinda' funny
that finally they show some men on TV and they can't find even
one hit set. Very promising (Go USA in '96). It's always a good sign when
the first thing they say is "We now join the men at the
end of the 5th
rotation." Where was Mihai????????????????
Susan
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 11 Jul 94 02:09:12 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: USOF Women's
Team/AA
Just a few Random thoughts . . .
How many times did
Julianne say "difficult" or "wonderful"? According to her
nothing
short of a fall is an error. The only thing funnier was when Peter
said "That's a Tkatchev into
immediate giant swing." with great excitement in
his
voice. Wow!!!
What is the deal with Bo Hahn's hair? On that note, what has Julianne
done
to herself?
I think I figured out
why I like McCain (besides the form and body line
thing). . . he looks a little like Korby.
Some of the same mannerisms and
facial expressions
too.
The scores overall were outrageous!
Amy Chow has great
difficulty but when Jim Nantz said that her mother
wanted
her to be a ballerina *I* almost fell off
beam! This girl has the most
horrendous body position (arms, feet, hands, back, legs,
head . . . you name
it she can't use it properly)
I've ever seen. She has still has time to
correct
it though and her form *within* moves is pretty decent. Quick
someone
sign up for ballet!
Doni and Kristy are both
pretty decent. The Tkatchev immed. Geinger Doni
threw was the coolest
thing I saw at this meet. I've quit longing for dance
or
elegance (C'mon Michelle hurry up and get better!).
Last year's fest
gave some decent highlights . . . Elieen Diaz's
layout full
in off bars. (BTW, Does anyone know
what happened to her?), Fontaine's boffo
bars set, and a few other spiffy tricks. This is year was pretty sub-par
overall. <sigh>
Susan
------------------------------
End
of gymn Digest
******************************