gymn Digest Fri, 2 Sep 94 Volume 3 : Issue 11
Today's Topics:
91 Floor X finals
91 worlds FX (2 msgs)
Browns' Business Sense (2 msgs)
Chussy on floor
Dynamo
Gymnastics GIF's
I'm back! (plus my first $0.02)
IMHO (2 msgs)
Jennie Thompson
Kelli Hill (3 msgs)
Nashville Ratings
NCAA WOMEN
No men on NBC
Tattoo?
Tchus/fx & vault
Television Coverage of Gymnastics (2 msgs)
The Men's Thing (2 msgs)
US Nationals (2 msgs)
Wendy's tatoo
This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.
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Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 00:07:08 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: 91 Floor X finals
I definitly agree with whoever said that Mitova was robbed of a medal. She
had great composition and tumbling combined. I also thought Zmeskal had
great dance but, the tumbling was very mediocre. IMHO I think Chussy should
have won the floor title mainly for her tumbling. I know she was very weak
in her dance but, two full outs in two very difficult positions wins in my
book. It was very close between Bontas and Chussy but, I thought Chussy was
just a tiny bit better. Regarding Oksana's vaulting performances, she was
robbed in both 91 and 92. She had two very difficult vaults with great
power, height, amplitude and form. She's probably one of the most underrated
gymnasts I have seen along with Onodi and Strug. Just my little $.2 I'm
open for comments and oppositions.---Brian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 17:11 PDT
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: 91 worlds FX
Lets stop kidding ourselves..
Sylvia Mitova should have won the FX title at 91 Worlds.
She was one of the only two (Bogy the other) who combined dance
and acrobatics, and as you remember, Bogy had landing problems.
The other 6 competitors in the final were not even worthy of competing with
Sylvia.
Mitova's 6th place was the final slap in the face from Indianapolis.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 00:56:24 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: 91 worlds FX
>Sylvia Mitova should have won the FX title at 91 Worlds. She was one of the
only two (Bogy the other) who combined dance and acrobatics, and as you
remember, Bogy had landing >problems.
I wasn't wildly impressed with Bogie's 91 floor. She seemed to be posing
between forced tumbling runs. I much preferred her 89 and 92 sets.
Mara
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 14:38:30 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Browns' Business Sense
Rita does own and run all three Brown's gyms in FL though her main interest
is the Altamonte Springs club. She will be basing her business out of the
Houston club once it opens ... hopefully next January. It will be the largest
gym in the country (52,000 sq. ft.) and she hopes to hold things like the
American or US Classic or possible club invites there.
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 18:17:57 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Browns' Business Sense
> She will be basing her business out of the Houston club once it opens
Will we see the top elites move also. Btw, what is it that is attracting her
to Houston?
Mara
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 18:18:04 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Chussy on floor
>IMHO, she easily deserved the 10.0 (layout full-out mount, tuck open
full-in, *fantastic* double pike, and her amplitude
plus Shus) and the win all to herself. Her movements were not really dance
but they were clean and crisp.
I disagree. I think Bontas should have won by herself. Chussy had great
tumbling (although an easier ending than Bontas), but your last sentence
doesn't begin to describe the mediocre movement between the tumbling passes.
>BTW, Chussy was also cheated out of several vault titles (esp. '92 ...
layout Tsuk and handspring pike - more like laidout - half).
Without question. I can't begin to understand how the judges placed her 3rd
in 1992. She did excellent vaults and stuck them both cold. Neither Onodi
or Boginskaya were anywhere near as good.
Mara
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 13:34:26 EST
From: ***@email.cfr.org
Subject: Dynamo
Beth's post among others on the same topic of "possessed" coaching leaves me
with a sickening feeling. I don't want to wonder afterwards when I see
gymnasts going through routines whether they are being mistreated
psychologically. *It is just not worth it*. Strug's going from coach to coach,
Nunno v. Shannon's mother, even Zmeskal's attempt to return....maybe it's
because this is the first time I've read in earnest, beyond some sanitized
articles, about the true vagarities of the sport but, "reality ain't pleasant".
Well on a lighter note, I read a lengthy article in the Washington Post about
Dawes; focusing on whether she would compete in the '96 Olympics (Retton,
also interviewed in the article, wondered as well). Dawes says she's not sure
whether she'll compete through the 1995 season and will take it one competition
at a time. BTW- The article does mention that Kelli Hill gave her the
week off right after the nationals. Hill seems like a nice lady; concerned,
optimistic, involved and darn good at what she does (don't anyone burst this
"illusion", please :-) ).
Connie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 00:38:16 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gymnastics GIF's
There are some gymnastics GIF's available in the GRAPHICS forum. When you
get to the software directory, just type in "gymnast" and you should see four
of them.---Brian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 10:09:43 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: I'm back! (plus my first $0.02)
Hi all!
The long summer of deprivation from Gymn has ended and I'm back to share my
every opinion (aren't you lucky? <g>).
So I may as well get started and say I thought Boginskaya's 91 FX was lousy.
Of course, lousy choreography for her is still better than almost everybody
else's. At least she tried, and just making the effort can pass for artistry
in "artistic" gymnastics. To me it seemed a rehash of old routines (even the
floor pattern was almost exactly the same as in the previous routine; it just
started and ended closer to the corner). She just stood around a lot, her
leaps were low (but that wasn't really new), and, worst of all, the stabbing
herself in the stomach business was just **so** cliche. Even friends of mine
who are rabid fans of hers thought it was bad, so I may not be crazy. IMHO
'88 was the true masterpiece, despite all the brouhaha over the air guitar
set (though it was certainly good).
I don't want to get too much into who should have won, but let me just say
that, as I recall, Mitova had considerably more deductions, and, as you all
know, you don't get anything for being artistic. We tend to criticize this
deficiency in the Code a lot, but I've yet to come up with or hear of a
viable proposal for correcting the problem.
>[Chusovitina is] probably one of the most underrated gymnasts I have seen
along with Onodi and Strug.
I agree on Chusovitina, but I just have to comment b/c I thought this
contrast was funny: I think Onodi and Strug were overrated (esp Onodi on
bars).
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 16:28:48 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: IMHO
What does IMHO mean? Yes, I am new to gymn. Also what does it mean when you
put ** around words?
Thanx,
_Jessica:)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 17:03:53 -0400
From: ***@orl.mmc.com
Subject: IMHO
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
IMHO - In My Humble Opinion
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 02:46:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: Jennie Thompson
This flame war over knocking on Jennie Thompson is getting a little out of
hand. I loath USA Online for some of the same things I am seeing here.
Express an opinion that is negative about a gymnast and a bunch of people
get upset all out of proportion and start in with admonations about picking
on kids and lecturing about how hard they work,etc. I think we all know how
hard these kids work and no one attacks them personally. Are we all in
agreement that ALL the kids are couragous, dedicated and hard working? OK,
now, is Jennie way over rated? (Insert your opinion here.) Mine is that I
have certainly seen other 13 year olds do what she does, saying that she is
far and away the best 13 year old in the country is just plain not true.
Will she be the best of her generation? Too early to tell, I wish her the
BEST of luck. An embaresment to artistic Gymnastics? Not even close. She is
one of several darn good YOUNG gymnasts we have in the USA. IMHO she is not
the phenomena the media is trying to make her, the entire JR.class is, there
are some pretty incredable youngsters at Jr. International and National
level. She fits in that group, but does not dominate it.
The people most deserving of the flames are the ones who keep trying to make
the fans of this sport into a cult of personality, hyping some gymnast every
four years and trying to put the whole gymnastic worlds focus on this golden
child, simply to market our sport. The rest of the kids get ignored and the
one gymnast gets unrealistic expectations to live up to. Ah, but the ratings!
Jennie is a good kid, but certainly has work to do. I'm sure she'll work to
the best of her ability. Now how about switching some of the spotlight onto
some of the other young gymnasts? I get bored with seeing and hearing about
only one. Although I enjoy her gymnastics I don't see what all the hoopla is
all about. As I said, everything she does I have seen before, yes even the
full on Beam. Was it just my tired eyes, or was her Beam routine basically a
standing full and a full in? What was that acro series?
God, I talk too much.....
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 14:38:35 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Kelli Hill
Kelli is as nice as she seems. She was more excited by Dom's victory then
Dawes. I've never seen her as anything other then caring and relaxed. Of
course, to play devil's advocate for a moment, she has only one really world
class gymnast to her name and no real others on the rise (Espisto her only
other elite is not even close to a Nat'l/Int'l level).
In gymnastics it seems that nice guys do finish last.
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 14:27:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@cap.gwu.edu
Subject: Kelli Hill
(discussing an article in the Washington Post on Dominique Dawes)
> BTW- The article does mention that Kelli Hill gave her the week off
> right after the nationals. Hill seems like a nice lady concerned,
> optimistic, involved and darn good at what she does (don't anyone burst
> this "illusion", please :-) ).
>
> Connie
Don't worry, Connie, I won't burst your illusion :).
One thing I'll always remember about Kelli Hill is that she coached her
team at Level 8 states. I think that was a terrific thing to do since
it's such a little meet compared to the things Dawes enters (Worlds was a
few weeks after the state meet) and if she hadn't coached, no one really
would have cared. Of course, someone mentioned that Nunno was a normal
person until Barcelona...
Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 18:05:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Kelli Hill
I agree with Connie - Kelli Hill seems to be a really wonderful coach and
person. In every meet I've seen when they've had a mike on her, her comments
have always been so positive and encouraging. Birmingham was a great example.
When Dom fell on her vault and knocked herself out of the AA, Kelli didn't say
anything negative; instead she told Dominique to be proud of how well she did
do. What a great approach! I've noticed other coaches, both American and
foreign, look disgusted, walk away or totally ignore the athlete if she's made
a mistake. I hate to see that - the girl has got to feel bad enough about
falling, but to have the coach send a message of "you failed me" is only going
to make her feel worse. It's so refreshing to see a coach like Kelli, who
always seems to be positive and encouraging, no matter what the circumstances.
Beth
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 13:08:45 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Nashville Ratings
As a followup to Susan's note about ratings for Nashville: Yes it seems like
a bummer, no it's not so bad.
First of all the shows aired on Saturday and Sunday nights. Saturday is
usually dead with low ratings and Sunday is dominated by 60 Minutes.
Gymnastics was in the proverbial "suicide slot" on Sunday night. . . . but we
did better than most other NBC shows in that slot all summer.
On Saturday night we also did better than NBC normally does in that time
slot.
So don't dispair. The numbers were better than last year. And the audience
GREW throughout the hour on both nights.
But now y'all see what we're up against with no charismatic star capturing
the imagination of the USA. At least all the Gymn folks tuned in!
But it ain't so bad. We'll be on next year.
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 02:46:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: NCAA WOMEN
>To All:
> Gymn member Raul hit on a real good point about the very real
>chance of *multiple* collegiate gymnasts being on the national team if
>compulsories are dropped.
> Prior to seeing this national competition, I was of the opinion that
>maybe the top 2-3 NCAA women's all-arounders would have a shot.
Really. Under FIG comp III rules? And REAL judging?
> I'm very excited about the prospect of real *women* out there competing.
>I think it will be a thrilling, exciting change to see a Jenny Hansen,
Agina
>Simpkins or Beth Wymer walk out there with mucles rippling and throwing
>tricks that are sky-high.
Personally I get excited watching the very best athletes out there
competing, emphasis on the very best, no matter what their age. Are you
saying that Dom is wimpy looking or that her tumbling is substandard in some
way?
> And lets say that 5-7 collegiate gymnasts place on the national team.
>Most of them likely would not want to do much traveling for national or
>international meets, particularly during the off-collegiate season.
Then why vie for spots on the National Team? I mean the inconvience of it
all....
> If that's the case, would the federation have to raise the number on
the
>national team to 30 to have enough gymnast to use for the various national
>and international meets?
Probably, to make up for all the dead weight.
> Again, more questions to make you go, "Hmmmmmm."
>--- Ron
Yes, about the whole notion.
Ben Corr
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 19:52:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: No men on NBC
> It's going to take a gymnastic Michael Jordan for men's gymnastics to
> really take off. Before 1980, the NBA wasn't doing too well--few fans
> at games, low revenue, etc., and was in danger of folding. But here
> comes two rookies named Earvin "Magic" Johnson and Larry Bird. A lot of
> sports people give them a lot of credit for "saving" the NBA. And then
> Michael Jordan came in 1984, and everything went nuts. It's going to
> have take a Magic/Bird/Jordan-esque kind of phenomenon to give men's
> gymnastics in the U.S. some notoriety.
>
> Anybody know if Mike has Net access? Then again, I don't know if I want
> to put any more ideas in his head.
>
> --Brent
The man is rich enough not to have e-mail.
He has peopel to do that FOR him !
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 19:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: Tattoo?
>
> > >Bit of trivia, the USAG *made* Wendy cover her tattoo with an ankle wrap.
> >
> > Did they threaten to toss her out of the meet?
> >
>
> Excuse my ignorance, but what kind of tattoo does she have?
>
> --Brent
Gee...
Ya had ta' open THIS can o' worms !
Chortle !
The topic was bound to come up.
OK, well for a long time it was felt that NICE people didnt GET tatoos.
They also didnt get body piercings. I can recall my sister being told that
"Only tramps get pierced ears".
In Japan tatoos & body piercings are considered to be indications of association
with the Yakuza (Japanese organized crime groups). Especially if the tatoo has
someone's name on it !
Can you imagine how many think that there is an organized crime family names
"Mom" ?
(Laughter)
Well the "Modern Primitive" movement has been picking up steam over the last
10 years. Now tats and piercings are becoming cool in some plces.
In the 60's you grew your hair out, quit shaving and wore tie dyed clothes
to tick off you folks. Now its pierced tongues, nipples, navels, eyebrows,
ears and I better not tell you where ELSE !.
The big tats are more than many people are able to cope with so, many opt for
something small like a heart on the tush or as this post deals with, a small
anklet design around the ankle.
By the way, to show you how times have changed, my mom who made the remark about
pierced ears so long ago, when she realized that her SON had pierced ears and
OTHER things, (no tats) her only response was "Keep them clean and dont let your
piercings get infected"
Not all the world has learned to deal with tats & piercings.
SKating & gymn have remained the last of the "family" sports.
Very strict on what you can & cant do.
Hair must be worn just so, wrong tshirt worn upon arrival at the meet,
never mind that you changed befoer the meet started, if they remember seeing
you in the parking lot in the shirt they dont like, you are LUNCHMEAT !
Actually, I would like to meet people from this list who are into body piercing
and discuss the subject outside of this list. I am curious how you keep the
piercings from getting in trouble when you do your routines.
For those of you who are curious about the subject in general, I refer to you
to internet news group rec.arts.bodyart
The FAQ is most informative.
"You put a ring throu your WHAT ?"
-texx
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 17:49:03 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Tchus/fx & vault
After reading the notes from Susan and Mara, I agree that Tchusovitina
was screwed out of the World Vaulting title in 92. But she was even more
screwed in '91. Re: floor ex, Bontas's routine was so cheesy she should
have been deducted. Brett is right: Mitova was so robbed it bordered on
a federal crime. 'Nuff said.
Amanda
or sometimes known as...
Gurova
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 13:26 MST
From: ***@DEANS.HEALTH.UTAH.EDU
Subject: Television Coverage of Gymnastics
Dear Dave-NBC,
I would like to take a few lines to express my appreciation that you are
willing to listen to gymmers regarding television coverage. At the recent
Congress, it was again confirmed that gymmers are particularly sensitive to
how the media presents gymnastics. In this regard, I would like to offer
some opinions and a couple suggestions. I thought I would email you
personally, but rethought and concluded that others on the net might have
opinions that contrast markedly with mine and would like to offer their
thoughts as well.
First, I have had considerable trouble convincing people that it is the
job of the media to report - not to promote. Although I must concede that
the "power" of the media to affect public opinion is enormous. The specific
situations I am referring to are the injury of Kerri Strug, and the tragic
death of Christy Henrich. Although these can be viewed as damaging to a
sport, they really did happen - nobody made them up - and should be reported.
I may be one of the few who believes that the American public is not stupid
enough to condemn an entire sport based on a few disquieting and tragic
events. The size of the recent Coaches' Congress indicates to me that the
gymnastics industry is alive and well.
It is important in any democracy that these kinds of incidents be
presented - albeit intelligently. At times bad things are going to happen.
I believe that the coverage of these things and the various types of dissent
that occur when people are allowed to express their opinions is vital to the
health of a democracy and the long run health of gymnastics. The
alternatives - censorship, coverups, denial, and so forth are much worse than
the exposure of problems that occasionally show up in gymnastics or other
sports. This kind of "background noise" is what keeps people on their toes
and provides important feedback on how things are going. When the background
noise becomes deafening via protest, civil disobedience, and so forth - then
we know we've really got a problem. Although I don't welcome the idea of
problems, I will defend to the death the right of everyone to express their
views and to see for themselves what is actually happening in the world. I
personally do not want anyone to candy-coat, censor, or neglect to show me
what is influencing my life and the lives of my family.
The "pressure" that is applied to the entire culture of gymnastics by
the coverage of these unfortunate incidents is healthy and important (not the
actual incidents, of course). I am certain that eating habits and the other
issues surrounding eating disorders have been altered in gymnasts due to the
tragic death of Christy Henrich. And, it would be unfair to say that USA
Gymnastics simply reacted to her death because an enormous amount of work was
well underway in the education of gymnasts, parents, and others regarding
these sensitive and volatile issue. More about this below.
Regarding televising the tape of Kerri Strug's fall; even though I
coached gymnastics for over 20 years - witness to a lot of ugly falls, I
winced when I saw Kerri's fall. It was ugly and dramatic. Your point about
Kerri's heroism was well taken. Having known Kerri directly and indirectly
for some time, I agree that she is a very heroic kid. That a bad fall can
occur in gymnastics should not be completely new to people. Your coverage
showed just how dramatic and dangerous a fall can be. This is a risk that is
minized by gymnastics as much as humanly possible. Thick mats, foam pits,
spotting, special progressions, conditioning and many other tactics are used
to prevent these kinds of falls. But, like air-bags, they can prevent most
but not all injuries.
Now my second point. On balance there are numerous people, programs,
and policies that dynamically try to help gymnastics occupy and keep the
moral and ethical high ground. Gymnastics people are extraordinarily
sensitive to the issues involving children and the best ways to help them
grow up in and through gymnastics. Although research evidence has not
supported the idea that sports builds character - almost everyone involved in
gymnastics believes that it does and acts accordingly. In my opinion, they
help gymnasts build a stronger character regardless of the research evidence
at present. In short, there is an entire substructure within gymnastics, via
USA Gymnastics and others, to help gymnasts. Everyone that I know takes
their involvement with kids very seriously. Although at times I don't agree
with the stances taken by some, I know that no one intentionally tries to
harm these kids in any way. As I would offer that I doubt that the media
intentionally tries to do harm to anyone either. However, both groups can be
seduced by the talent of a gymnast, or the "juiciness" of a story and use
poor judgment.
I would like to simply acquaint you with some of the people involved in
gymnastics sport science that may be able to provide information and help
balance the picture of what modern gymnastics is all about.
1. Dr. Dan Benardot - national women's team nutritionist, Georgia State
Univ, Atlanta.
2. Dr. Dennis Caine - Western Washington, sports injury epidemiology.
3. Dr. Joan Duda - national women's team sport psychologist, Purdue.
4. Dr. Jerry George - Univ SW Lousiana, biomechanics, safety.
5. Dr. Keith Henschen - former national women's team sport
psychologist, sport psychologist to Univ of Utah women's gymnastics.
4. Dr. Joe Massimo - Massachusetts, sport psychologist.
5. Dr. Bob McKelvain - national men's team sport psychologist.
6. Dr. Jill McNitt-Gray - USC biomechanist, equipment testing.
7. Dr. Larry Nassar - national team physician, men and women
8. Dr. Aurelia Nattiv - UCLA, doing great work in the female athlete
triad, disordered eating, amenorrhea, osteoporosis.
9. Mr. Jack Rockwell - former national team athletic trainer and
therapist.
10. Mr. Brad Smith - national team athletic trainer and therapist,
Indianapolis.
11. Dr. Lowell Weil - former national team podiatrist, Des Plaines, IL
12. Dr. Bert Mandelbaum - UCLA men's team, doing great work on
orthopedic injuries, particularly wrist problems.
13. Mr. Steve Whitlock - director of education and safety at USA
Gymnastics.
I'm sure that I'm missing some people (not intentionally), but I think
you get the idea that there is a considerable amount of expertise being
brought to bear on the problems of gymnastics performance. Perhaps some of
the work of these people could be used to demonstrate that gymnastics is
doing everything it can to be responsible and ethical in the conduct of the
sport. As gymnastics changes from year to year we find that the problems and
their solutions become moving targets which makes them particularly difficult
to solve. But, there are many people who have dedicated their lives to
solving these problems.
In closing, I offer this as an open letter so that others on the net can
respond. I may be biased in my views, and welcome the criticisms that may
point this out. Best wishes to you.
Wm A. Sands, Ph.D.
Chair Sport Science Advisory Committee - USA Gymnastics
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 18:18:08 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Television Coverage of Gymnastics
>concluded that others on the net might have opinions that contrast markedly
with mine and would like to offer their
thoughts as well.
That's ridiculous. Every here *always* agrees and we *never* argue!!!
<vbg>
Mara
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 19:17:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: The Men's Thing
Robin, Rachele & George;
FORGIVE ME ! But my flame thrower is bursting with presure !
I must relioeve it or itll explode !
I havent flambe'd anyone in a LONG time !
Dont worry, I wont kill him, just maim him a little !
It isnt often that TV network folk blunder into an ambush like this.
I couldnt have planned it better if I tried !
(Maniacal laughter)
DUCK !
>
> There quite simply needs to be an American male who is a true Hoss and a half
> in gymnastics before the sport takes off again. Viewers (Gymn folk excepted)
> have a hard time with guys named Vitaly, Wang and Ivan. Somebody wrote that
> USA men's gymn needs a Michael Jordan ---- That is the essence.
Where do you get THIS crud, dearheart ?
You have time for tennis & golf ! In tennis you give LOTS of attention to
people with names like Boris Ivan etc. I mean Tenis MUST be the second boring
sport in the world. You sit there in the audience with all your heads turning
in unison.
Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bloop, awww!
Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bloop, awww!
Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bloop, awww!
Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, blip, ahhh!
Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bloop, awww!
The only thing more boring than that is golf.
The reason you have to talk so quiet at golf is to not wake up the participants!
Hell I have had more exciting nights watching paint dry !
> We WANT to put the men on ----
Yeah and I believe you are from the IRS & you are here to help me !
> but it's gotta be great stuff with world class
> contenders. Faced with the choice of guys falling off stuff or showing Summer
> Reid, Amy Chow or Dominique Moceanu, I choose the girls every time.
I will give you that. The guys this year sucked bigtime.
I'll cut you slack on that one.
But if our guys get over their galloping cases of the klutzes, I expect you to
start giving us more airtime. I dont demand primetime. Hell even 3 AM is OK.
Its more cultural than the infomercials I see on then.
I dont CARE what Ron Popiel invented this week !
> As far as more program time ---- as I said before, the marketplace dictates
> duration. Two hours in primetime is great in a non-non-non Olympic year.
>
Ever TRIED selling guys time ?
I am suspicious that you havent tried too hard.
I am convinced that all you network sports types have the same idea that my
high school sports staff had, that football was the greatest thing and guys
gymn wasnt worth bothering with. Actually they gutted the gymn program top
get more money for football being that "Only fags go out for guys gymn".
If you network types TRIED selling guys gymn, you would have takers.
Advertisers will take time out if you push them.
See ! I didnt kill you. I just sorta scorched you a tad around the edges...
Ill trade you a first aid kit for an hour of guys gymn on primetime ....
(mwahahahaha!)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 23:05:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu
Subject: The Men's Thing
On Thu, 1 Sep 1994, Texx wrote:
> DUCK !
Where?
> >
> > There quite simply needs to be an American male who is a true Hoss and a half
> > in gymnastics before the sport takes off again. Viewers (Gymn folk excepted)
> > have a hard time with guys named Vitaly, Wang and Ivan. Somebody wrote that
> > USA men's gymn needs a Michael Jordan ---- That is the essence.
>
> Where do you get THIS crud, dearheart ?
>
> You have time for tennis & golf ! In tennis you give LOTS of attention to
> people with names like Boris Ivan etc. I mean Tenis MUST be the second boring
> sport in the world. You sit there in the audience with all your heads turning
> in unison.
> Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bloop, awww!
> Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bloop, awww!
...
I have to agree. But I have to add the "uh" noises when they hit the
ball. My apologies. Actually, I don't remember ever seeing tennis on
NBC, not that I'd have watched it if it was there. Despite all that may
be said by the fanatics (looks at Texx, then giggles in the same tones as
used above), David has presented an excellent arguement. However, I think
that Texx is right in pointing out that it's been a while since Men's has
been given prime time and advertised o the extent that women's has been.
I think David is right - they need to try and cater to their market, and
ratings are an excellent way to find out what your market likes and
doesn't like ;). There is the minor detail that the audience won't know
what they want if they haven't had some example of it.. Some of men's
gymnastics is distinctly boring to watch (Pommel Horse,), on the other
hand, some is really exciting (floor, high bar, to some extent rings and
vault, p-bars). If people are willing to watch uneven bars, I think
they'd be willing to watch the stuff that happens on the high bar. An
interesting experiment might be to show in incomplete hour over view of a
meet showing first womens floor, then mens floor, then uneven bars, then
high bar, etc, having more womens than mens, as there is (according to
what you say) more market there. Leave out (ack) some of the less
interesting events (well, some of the some of the less interesting events.
I wager that vault isn't the most interesting element as far as the
average american goes with either mens or womens), etc.
Just as a one time experiment, maybe. I think people would watch it (I
know I would). Don't show it on prime time if you're worried about
success. Maybe show it at some odd hour atnight, or something. Just try
it, please..
> Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bloop, awww!
> Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, blip, ahhh!
> Bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk, bloop, awww!
>
> The only thing more boring than that is golf.
> The reason you have to talk so quiet at golf is to not wake up the participants!
> Hell I have had more exciting nights watching paint dry !
Not quite. There is the odd chance things will get interesting when a
golf ball knocks someone out or something. The most intersting thing
about golfare the injuries. Hence boredom with the sport. American press
sensationalism strikes into the heart of all americans.. blah.. I can't
stand watching golf. Apparently people enjoy it though. Maybe it's
because they have no exposure to anything better.
> > As far as more program time ---- as I said before, the marketplace dictates
> > duration. Two hours in primetime is great in a non-non-non Olympic year.
Can we do a trade maybe? lose two hours prime time to gain 8 hours
non-prime? VCR's are no object... ;)
> high school sports staff had, that football was the greatest thing and guys
> gymn wasnt worth bothering with. Actually they gutted the gymn program top
> get more money for football being that "Only fags go out for guys gymn".
Hehe. You should have heard the head of our school's PE department trying
to pursuade us that we couldn't sign up for it ;). It really was
rediculous. First he wouldn't admit we were signed up for it (they
thought it had been a mistaken circle on the sheet). Then he thought the
class must have been full (and let a girl in who was next in line) , then
tried to pursuade us that we'd have to dress for the sport, and.. ;).
Well, I'll leave the rest to your imagination. He wass SURE we all wanted
to take weight training for the rest of our lives.. or play baseball (that
is a boring game). Who knows. I think Texx has a point though.. There
is a problem with our culture in general, and this is only the surface of
it. That, however, is for a different piece of mail.
> See ! I didnt kill you. I just sorta scorched you a tad around the edges...
>
> Ill trade you a first aid kit for an hour of guys gymn on primetime ....
> (mwahahahaha!)
Now, you said you were handing out pieces to be framed on our walls? ;).
I wouldn't mind seeing it prime time, certainly. I'd like to see what
happens if you mix the two showingwise (although meets aren't usually
organized like that), so that those who want to watch the more popular
women's gymnastics would "accidently" have to watch men's. I think a
following would gather - those willing to watch the (afterwards) later
showing of men's because it can be so exciting.. Anyhow. That's that,
I guess. I say we give David a chance - at least 4 months warning before
we blow up his house.. (in essence: I'm still apologizing about my
comments about NBC's covering meet that they didn't cover ;).
Robert
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 15:14:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@tiger.hsc.edu
Subject: US Nationals
I just saw my tape of US Nationals from this weekend. People have already
probably commented, but am I the only one who wonders at the results of
event finals?
I am happy for Dominique. A clean sweep is quite an accomplishment!
I guess I am wondering where the emphasis in women's gymnastics is
leaning. If FX is power and grace, why hasn't Chuchinovitsina (I can't ever
spell her name, I'm sorry) never not won a World medal? Granted dance
has never been her strong suit but it certainly has improved. Dominique
clearly won in the tumbling category. But then again she only performed
1 doulbe salto pass and no front tumbling. (Shannon also only performed
1 double salto pass.) Amanda certainly had the tumbling and the charisma
for floor. (She justs needs a tiny bit more polish.) I guess it comes
down to a question of style. (And maybe a little politics and history?)
As for front tumbling, what is wrong with it? For so many years gymnasts
(especially women) have only performed backward tumbling. The state of
gymnastics is such that forward tumbling technique is simply not as
developed. A Rudi is incredibly difficult. Granted, I would personally
rather see a triple twist. [I think that it is interesting to note that
Shannon's middle and final passes are more difficult than Dominique's...
at least by the book.] The point is that I would optimally see a gymnast
perform 3 or 4 difficult and DIFFERENT passes, rather than 3 variations
on a theme.
Oh well....any comments?
Julius
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 15:41:09 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: US Nationals
>If FX is power and grace, why hasn't Chuchinovitsina (I can't ever
spell her name, I'm sorry) never not won a World medal<
Chusovitna tied Christina Bontas for the '91 World FX title with a 9.987 (I
think ... I'm too lazy to check). IMHO, she easily deserved the 10.0 (layout
full-out mount, tuck open full-in, *fantastic* double pike, and her amplitude
plus Shus) and the win all to herself. Her movements were not really dance
but they were clean and crisp. BTW, Chussy was also cheated out of several
vault titles (esp. '92 ... layout Tsuk and handspring pike - more like
laidout - half).
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 02:46:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: Wendy's tatoo
>To All:
> Sheesh, they made Wendy cover up her tattoo? Oh please. As long as it
>wasn't vulgar, this would seem to be truly bordering a Constituation Freedom
>of Expression violation.
Kind of like having to wear those darn white pants on pommel horse!
Constitutional Freedom of Expression violation? Oh pleeeease...
> Besides, anything that makes the meet just a tad bit different is good for
>USA Gymnastics. Everytime Wendy did a routine, they would have been looking
>for the tattoo, and Wendy would have becomea mini-celebrity. What's so wrong
>with that?
Funny, I thought people went to gymnastics meets to see gymnastics.
Celebrity status I thought went to the finest gymnast, not the most
outragous, or the cutest, or the flashiest leo.......
> What if she had a particularly interesting birthmark on her leg? Would
>they force her to cover it?
This sounds kind of kinky! What KIND of interesting birthmark were you
thinking of you devil?
> These are questions that make you go, "Hmmmmmm."
I'll say. You are out there dude.
Ben
--- Ronald
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End of gymn Digest
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