GYMN-L Digest - 5 Apr 1995 to 6 Apr 1995 - Special issue

There are 26 messages totalling 1026 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. opinion poll
  2. Weird Annoucements/Calls:
  3. 1995 Gymnix International results
  4. 1995 Gymnix International report
  5. Mtn Pacific stuff (3)
  6. Weird Annoucements/Calls:/ban Maddox
  7. Keswick status
  8. floor routines
  9. Introduction
 10. ESPN announcers
 11. best floor routines
 12. Super Stars of Gymnastics
 13. Been there, done that
 14. substituting gymnasts (was tv overkill)
 15. Been there, done that (fwd) (2)
 16. floor
 17. New Ideas (2)
 18. Opinion poll
 19. VIDEO MAGAZINE
 20. Superstatrs of Gymnastics
 21. Best FX routines
 22. Mary Lou - announcer

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:22:11 -0400
From:    ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: opinion poll

     I think Brett (?) did a similar poll a few months back, and Sylvia
Mitova's floor came out the winner. With good reason! My other favorites are
Omelianchik '85 (because it was so groundbreaking with the back-to-back
tumbling, plus her great overall presentation), Omelianchik '87, Tuzhikova '87,
Silivas '87, and ALL the Soviet girls at 89 Worlds, esp. Bogy and Lashchenova.
Among Americans, my favorite floor routines have been Kathy Johnson's ("Swan
Lake") and Michelle Campi's classical routine from '91-92. I also really liked
Amanda Borden's old classical routine. I tend not to go for "cutsie" routines,
except for people who can REALLY pull it off - Mo Huilan immediately comes to
mind! She's just darling! :)

Beth

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:49:04 -0400
From:    ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Weird Annoucements/Calls:

[lots of dumb things Gordon Maddux has said in his commentary deleted]

The classic *worst* commentator line *ever* by far, of course, belongs to
Gordie, from LA '84, when Tim Daggett was on PH and  Gordie said he was
all over the horse like a naked woman. :P

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:48:27 -0600
From:    ***@HARRIER.SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: 1995 Gymnix International results

Hi everyone,

I got back from Montreal on Monday evening.  Been doing pictures since then and
decided to take a break and post to the group.  Results first:

SENIOR AA                     Vault   Bars    Beam    Floor   AA
 1-Lilia Podkopayeva (UKR)    9.183   9.825   9.800   9.850   39.288
 2-Elena Shapornaya (UKR)     9.500   9.575   9.500   9.650   38.225
 3-Olga Yurkina (BLR)         9.300   9.550   9.525   9.400   37.775
 4-Marilou Cousineau (CAN)    9.375   9.500   9.450   9.250   37.575
 5-Julia Yurkina (BLR)        9.375   9.650   9.375   9.150   37.550
 6-Caroline Debras (BEL)      9.513   9.000   9.500   9.250   37.263
 7-Myanh Dang (Ortona)        9.075   8.850   9.225   9.125   36.275
 8-Sarah Running (Bluewater)  9.400   8.550   8.850   9.400   36.200
 9-Krista Hirose (Panthers)   9.283   9.250   8.550   9.100   36.183
10-Melanie Montambault (TRM)  9.300   9.150   8.300   9.100   35.850
11-Marleen Lavoie (CAN)       9.038   8.350   9.300   9.000   35.688
plus 16 others

SENIOR TEAM
 1-Ukraine (Podkopayeva/Shapornaya) 77.513
 2-Belarus (Olga & Julia Yurkina)   75.325
 3-Canada (Cousineau/Lavoie)        73.263
 4-Ortona/Bluewater (Dang/Running)  72.475
 5-Gym-TRM (Montambault/A.Bourke)   70.750
plus 7 others

SENIOR EVENT FINALS (Top 3)
VAULT  1-Podkopayeva 9.750, 2-Cousineau 9.4125, 3-O.Yurkina 9.400
BARS   1-O.Yurkina 9.700, 2-Shapornaya 9.675, 3(tie) Cousineau & J.Yurkina 9.525
BEAM   1-Podkopayeva 9.750, 2-Breanne Holmes (Altadore) 9.450, 3-Cousineau 9.425
FLOOR  1-Podkopayeva 9.925, 2-Shapornaya 9.825, 3-Dana Ellis (Cambridge) 9.600


JUNIOR AA                         Vault   Bars    Beam    Floor   AA
 1-Susana Garcia (Fuxarda)        9.375   9.475   9.500   9.450   37.800
 2-Maria-Jesus Gracia (Fuxarda)   9.250   9.300   8.900   9.300   36.750
 3-Sarah Deegan (Gemini)          9.225   9.100   8.500   9.400   36.225
 4-Claudine Pinard (Richelieu)    9.150   8.850   8.900   9.100   36.000
 5-Angelique Soulie (U.S.Creteil) 9.000   8.800   8.300   8.650   35.750
 6-Rebecca Toledano (Fuxarda)     9.050   9.300   8.000   9.300   35.650
 7-Adrianne Begg (Team Sask)      8.600   8.700   9.100   9.150   35.550
 7-Katie McAvoy (Panthers)        8.800   9.350   8.200   9.200   35.550
 9-Ana Noya (Fuxarda)             9.050   9.225   8.150   9.100   35.525
10-Ainoa Aguado (Fuxarda)         9.200   8.325   8.550   9.050   35.125
11-Sophie Henry (BEL)             9.050   9.000   8.750   8.300   35.100
plus 21 others

JUNIOR TEAM
 1-Fuxarda (Garcia/Gracia)            74.550
 2-Gym-Richelieu (Pinard, A.Leclerc)  70.900
 3-U.S. Creteil (Soulie/J.Gatinois)   70.750
 4-Team Sask (Begg/M.Dash)            69.650
 5-Gemini (Deegan/D.Hicks)            69.275
plus 5 others

JUNIOR EVENT FINALS (Top 3)
VAULT  1-Gracia 9.425, 2-Aguado 9.350, 3-Garcia 9.3125
BARS   1-Deegan 9.350, 2-McAvoy 9.250, 3-Karine Marin (Gymnix) 9.200
BEAM   1-Garcia 9.425, 2-A.Leclerc 9.375, 3-Pinard 9.325
FLOOR  1-Garcia 9.625, 2(tie) Deegan & Noya 9.600


For those of you wanting details, I'll post the report separate.


Dory

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:48:30 -0600
From:    ***@HARRIER.SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: 1995 Gymnix International report

The meet was held March 31 to April 2 in the Omnisport Room at the Centre Claude
Robillard in the North part of Montreal.  It's a huge facility with the
Omnisport room (indoor track with seats), swimming and diving pools, outdoor
track/soccer field with
seats, plus the basement level includes archery, judo, weight rooms, and
last but certainly not least the Club Gymnix de Montreal.  Their training
facility is reasonably
large, however since they're in the basement they have posts all over the
gym (including some unfortunately in their FX mat).

Friday night (March 31) started with a separate compulsory meet (didn't
count toward
anything else over the weekend).  Don't have results but can get them easily
if anyone
wants to see them.  Podkopayeva won, Shapornaya second, and Marleen Lavoie
third.
Podkopayeva was a little shaky on bars (nothing major) but that didn't stop
the judges
from giving her around 9.800.

Saturday afternoon was junior all-around.  The Spanish girls were all young
(12-14)
but very impressive.  Good form, body line, and style.  Garcia and Gracia (yes
that's correct) easily reclaimed their '94 team title.  Garcia was great on bars
(Tkatchev, Jaeger, Rudi dismount) and only broke form on giant halfs.  Beam and
floor for all the Fuxarda (Barcelona club) girls looked great.  Sarah Deegan
could
have challenged for gold but fell twice on her first event, beam (layout mount,
ff layout layout).  Everything else was beautiful (she's coached by Elena
Davidova
along with head coach July Gershovich).  Definitely one to keep an eye on
for the
future.

Senior all-around went Saturday night.  It was pretty obvious that Lilia
would win.
She was a little cranky all week in training, in tears once in awhile from a
sore
ankle(s?) and/or heels, but her confidence was fine and she fought through.
Vault
was the Yurchenko half (stuck both); bars included a legs-together free hip
hecht
to HB, two hop fulls to Gienger, and tucked half in half out; beam - front
tuck on,
ff ff piked Chen, the usual gym acros, and tucked full-in;  floor was as usual,
too (double front, front layout punch front full, piked full-in) with new music.
I didn't care for it that much.  Too much flexed feet & hands and waving hips.

Shapornaya was tall and long, but pretty much an average Soviet gymnast.  Vault
was a cheap front pike (tuck out); beam was front on, ff layout, Rulfova,
front tuck,
ff ff double tuck; floor was full-in, 2.5 twist punch front, Rudi punch
front, triple twist, Bolero for music (cool) but most of her time was spent
standing in the corner preparing for tumbling runs (tips from Stoby?!).
Bars included Tkatchev long swing half to back tuck to LB, then got ultra
cool with straight body eagles :) to double front half.

The Yurkinas were beautiful as ever, though Julia was nursing a bad ankle.
Her elbow
is all better.  Both did Gienger and piked Jaeger on bars with Olga doing
half in half out and Julia a double front half dismount.  They both wore
buns (ponytails are the only way to go, folks) so beam and floor didn't look
quite as cool as usual.  Those Yurkina hands are still there, though.  Julia
still has her Carmen FX and Olga did the same as Dortmund.

Marilou Cousineau was also suffering ankle problems but came through for her
home
crowd/club.  She paired with Marleen Lavoie (originally from Montreal, now
of the Ortona club in Edmonton, Alberta) for the team bronze.  Marleen had
just returned from Pan-Ams and also had a bit of a flu so was tired out.
She is something to see though ... great style, presence, form, etc.  Her
clubmate Myanh Dang is cool, too.

Myanh paired with 12 year old (!) Sarah Running of the Bluewater Gym Club in
Sarnia,
Ontario.  There weren't any spots left to compete in Junior so she was forced to
go senior.  Not a problem.  (She took second in senior AA at a invite meet in
Michigan in January).  Great skills on every event.  Front pike vault; Tkatchev,
piked Jaeger (fell), and open double pike dismount; beam included ff layout
layout, two foot ff to back tuck, ff ff double tuck; floor was front full,
whip to 2.5 twist, and
2.5 twist.  She can do a lot more on floor (believe me) but is just
recovered from a
lengthy foot injury.

Other cool stuff included Stephanie Cappuccitti's wild Deltchev and Jaeger
and Yvonne Tousek's (Cambridge, coached by Elvira Saadi) cool Hindorff to
layout Pak Salto (fell
in the meet).  Podkopayeva did a Stalder to HB in training (like a free-hip
hecht to
HB except from a Stalder) which was cool.

Lilia dominated finals too and probably would have won bars too until she
caught her
Gienger a bit close and took an extra swing.  Fuxarda dominated the junior
events
and Deegan grabbed a gold and a silver too.  CBC French will be airing the
senior
event finals this weekend.

Questions anyone?  Let me know and I'll see what I can do.


Dory

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:51:53 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Mtn Pacific stuff

I was not clear and Josh misunderstood me.
When I said 6 on each event and over 6 on a team, I was talking about
basic Fri night meets during the year.  I was NOT speaking of the championships.

See down below where I said "rest of the year"

Ill include the exchange below for clarity.

.................................................

>
> This is not true at all!  Only six competitors can be put up on each event.
> If there are any more than six, then they are exhibition and do not count
> in the team score at all.  Also, this year they made a change in that only
> four of the six scores count towards the team score.  The idea of this setup
> is to encourage teams to try harder routines.  Two gymnasts could fall off,
> and neither score would effect the team score.
>
> --- Begin Included Message ---
>
> Mayland pretty much has it right.
> While they use as many as they want over the rest of the year,
> they seldome use more than 6 guys on each event.
>
> -texx
> --- End Included Message ---
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:57:23 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Weird Annoucements/Calls:/ban Maddox

Josh Winicki shared with us:
>
> Sidenote on this meet:  Gordie was totally biased as an announcer, bad
> mouthing Cal, and talking up UCLA.  He was real quiet when the team
> event winners came up, and Cal had won 4 of the 6 events.
>
> Another gordie favorite:  at the '84 olympics, i believe, he was
> demonstrating how the dowel grips work on high bar.  He had the
> grips on completely wrong with the dowel placed under the bar instead
> of over it.  What a fool.
>
> Josh


Perhaps we should deluge the network with mail demanding that they NOT use
Gordie for gymnastics work, and point out what a dummy he is.

Remember: Were gymnasts, we got grips, and we got e-mail !

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:16:11 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Mtn Pacific stuff

>
> > When did they start this?  Last time I was at Stanford during the season
> > was '92, and they were still doing the Pac-10 "Invitational" (as opposed
> > to Championships b/c of the lack of teams) and I had never heard of the
> > MPSF until now.
>
> The first year they dropped the pac10 meet was '93.  The first MPSF meet
> was held at UCLA.  I believe Stanford won this meet.  If they didn't,
> they should have with the likes of Mark Booth, Jair Lynch, Bender, Josh
> Stein, and other very capable competitors.

Well I remember Mark when he started at Stanford.
I also remember the beginning of the end for Mark.
Mark was so cool on p-bar.  He was cool, he was awsome, he was a stud.
One night I saw Jair score a 10 on P-bars.
Mark began a slide into oblivion after that.
As Jair continued to outscore him that year, I could read Mark's face.
I could sense it from the stands, the flame had died.
I understand he is half heartedly working out toward Olympic trials
but being overtaken and then spending so much time in Jairs shadow
(NOTE: I am NOT knocking Jair!)
and now his NCAA time has run out.
Many of us wpould like to see Mark make the team for 96.
It looks like Marks spirit has been broken though.
I wish I could just drive my bike into that gymn and hook up a set of jumper
cables to his grips and get him back into the form he was in before that night.
Hes got less than a year to make the team and some of us despair that he is
outta time. (How the hell do you re light someones pilot light ?)

One of my souveniers (sp?) of this season is a wallet sized card with the
stanford schredule of mens gymn on it and a cool picture of Josh Stein
on it.  Josh wrapped up his last NCAA year st Stanford and I think hes
graduating this year too.

Jeff Bender graduated awhile back, what a ring man....
I later heard that his Dad coached the HS gymn program in his hometown in PA.
I miss watching Jeff.  I hope he ends up coaching somewhere.
Dunno if hes real coach material but can he ever demo !

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:21:35 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Keswick status

|
| He heard that Scott broke his back but nothing more than that.

Nothing has been announced since the American Cup, where it was
reported that Keswick had a herniated disk.  (5th lombar?)  Rumor has
it that he's walking around just fine but not really working out yet.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:24:06 -0400
From:    ***@PRISM.GATECH.EDU
Subject: floor routines

i have always loved boginskaya's routines-she is not afriad to be original
and  is willing to take a risk of maybe not getting the score for taking
the risk-she also provided great entertainment from the regular boring
routines that we see so much on tv-i mean really how many routines DO
stand out ion our heads after we turn off the tube? not many! silivas is a
close runner up but her style is totally different...adrienne

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:18:15 MET
From:    ***@SEPA.TUDELFT.NL
Subject: Introduction

Because Beth asked me to introduce myself a little, here is a
summary of myself in gymnastics

I am 24 years of age, secretary by profession, and although I am
Dutch, I lived in England for a while.
Gymnastics played a big part in my life ever since the late seventies.
This mostly as a spectator at several meets.
Among them where Worlds, Europeans, Russian displays in both
Belgium and London, Holland vs Romania, Int. of Belgium, England,
Ahoy cup, U.S.A. Olympic team '80 display, Holland vs. U.S.A., Ennia
Gold cup, Alfred Vogel toernooi, etc. etc.

My favorite gymnasts are:

Svetlana Ivanova, Natalia Yurchenko, Olga Mostepanova, Vera
Koleshnikova, Camelia Voinea, Ecaterina Szabo, Marina Lobach,
Laura Munoz, Laura Cutina, Iveta Polekova, Boriana Stoyanova,
Christina Grigoras etc

My favorite event is vault, I am much into the Soviet school and I
think gymnastics has changed a lot over the years, not always for
the better.  A lot of the mistery has gone.  I am mostly into artistic
gymnastics, but as well my interest goes out to rythmic and sports
acro. (My sister, Mireille, is the base of a womens duo, and is eager
to make worlds in a few years time, to come home with some steel)

Because I attended several meets I got to know a lot of gymnasts
personally.  Mireille is fluent in Russian, (She visited, Victor
Gravichenko (coach Yelena Shushunova) a few times in St.
Petersburg, Marina one of the girls that trained there, was our
guest this summer). My sister managed to get Tatiana Toughikova
and her husband Sergei a training position in the Netherlands. They
arrived in Holland last month.  Most probably their baby son will join
them this summer.

Again, since I am linked to this forum, it amazes me how small the
gym world is.  People that you find back as reporters in gym
magazines, people that you know by name.  And especially how
fanatic gym fans are, in a nice way that is.

Yes, I do have lots and lots of gym tapes, photographs, etc. trading
can be possible.  The only thing I don't like is going to meets and find
people having photographs I took selling if as they took them
themselves.

Bye for now
Chantal

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:50:51 -0700
From:    ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: ESPN announcers

>everyone also needs to remember that although ESPN is a large netowrk it
>doesn't have anywhere near the money needed to have someone like MAry Lou
>Retton (i dont like ehr style anyway) commentate...adrienne

As far as I know Mary Poo hasn't announced since '88 (and boy am I
crying).  Bart Connor and Kathy J do ESPN all the time.  Usually they do
int'l coverage, like the exhibitions etc.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:58:42 -0700
From:    ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: best floor routines

1.  Groshkova's Spanish melody/ Oksana's '85 routine (it changed floor. . .)
3.  Boginskaya "Carmen"
4.  Mitova's blues
5.  Zmeskal's Rock-Around-the-clock
wait how did that get in there. . .
5.  Fab's old routine (91 jr Int'l, 92 Moscow Stars. . .  You know which
one I'm talkin' 'bout!)
6.  Oksana's '87 routine (it changed floor. . .)
7.  Olga's "Rite of Spring"
8.  Bogie's '89 Worlds
9.  Khorky's new and improved Dortmund routine
10.  Ain't nuttin' like A Yurkina, Baaaa-by! (Yulia)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:45:00 -0500
From:    ***@MERCK.COM
Subject: Super Stars of Gymnastics

Hi everyone!  We=C9ve just come back from Superstars of Gymnastics.  =
It was=20
fabulous!!

The Romanian team didn=C9t do so well but since no one was judging th=
em, they=20
got to try again.  They had a clinic before the exhibition but it was=
n=C9t=20
what was promised.  It ended up being  a talk by Bela Karolyi.  He ke=
pt=20
calling us =C8Little Wieners=C9. (Remember, I=C9m 17!).  He kept repe=
ating=20
 himself  but  for the life of me I can=C9t remember what he said!.

The USA network was filming this for a *prime time* special in July. =
 They=20
did not have an autograph session but I did manage to sneak down and =
get=20
Karolyi=C9s.  They also didn=C9t have programs which was weird.  I wa=
s very=20
disappointed.  But I did get a tee shirt with every one=C9s name on i=
t.

I think Kim Zimescal=C9s comeback will be a hit.  She did excellent o=
n bars=20
and we were the first audience to see her floor routine.  I didn=C9t =
care for=20
her music but that=C9s probably just me.  They had =C8skits=C9 at the=
 beginning=20
and Nadia Comaneci  and Bart Conner did a routine to  the 50=C9 s (?)=
 music=20
=C8Going to the Chapel=C9.  If you hadn=C9t heard, they are getting m=
arried in=20
real life.  Also, we learned that Mary Lou Retton is about to have a =
baby=20
any minute or she would have there tonight too!.

The other gymnasts were Franca Abbatiello,  Michelle Berube, Olga Bic=
herova,=20
Svetlana Boginskaya, Phillipe Chartrand, Dianne Durham, Lily Garcia, =
Gina=20
Gogean, Jarrod Hanks, Nadia Hatagan, Paul Hunt, Valery Liukin, Marche=
nko &=20
Redkova, Lavinia Milosovici, Dominique Moceanu, Valentin Moguilny and=
 Vitaly=20
Scherbo.  The events were rings, men=C9s high bar, parallel bars, une=
ven bars,=20
floor, pommel horse and beam.  Everything was done to music.

Vitaly Scherbo was excellent on everything, including the floor routi=
ne.

Paul Hunt was our comic relief.  He pretended to be a girl and perfor=
med on=20
uneven bars, beam and floor.  He was very good as well as very funny.=
   He=20
managed to do a split on the beam...underneath it upside down.  It wa=
s=20
awesome how he did layouts on floor and landed on his stomach. *Ouch*=
.  My=20
mom was impressed with the back handsprings he did in a full circle a=
round=20
the floor.

Thirteen year old Dominique Moceanu will definitely be at Atlanta in =
96,=20
barring any unforeseen tragedies.  It was obvious that she is Bela=
=C9s current=20
star.  My mom was impressed by Octavian Belu.  Unlike Bella,  He was =
there=20
for all his girls when they needed a spot and didn=C9t upstage them. =
 I think=20
that was probably because Bella was still wearing the Olympic team ja=
cket=20
and Octavian was just dressed regular.

Kim received a standing ovation and mom thinks that Nadia and Bart wo=
uld=20
have had they stood there a little longer after there final routine.

When I went to get a drink I heard someone talking about West Chester=
=20
Collage.  It was the Coach!  We started talking and  I=C9m going to b=
e seeing=20
her when I go to visit the campus next week.

To everyone who answered my introduction, thanks for the advice and=
=20
comments.  They were very encouraging.  I will be answering you soon =
but I=20
had a meet this past weekend (I qualified for sectionals!) and I have=
=20
another one this week.  But I=C9m off from school next week so I will=
 be sure=20
to write back.

Well, these were the highlights.  I=C9m glad I=C9ll get to see this a=
gain in the=20
summer.

Sally

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:34:15 -0400
From:    ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Been there, done that

Beth's right; the FX poll's been done.  Maybe if Brett still has the
old results he could add responses from new people? (not to volunteer you or
anything :) ).

We also had a pretty heated discussion of 2/3-gymnast-per-nation rule
just about a year ago (the first time I had the pleasure of getting into
an argument with Susan :) )

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:34:42 -0400
From:    ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: substituting gymnasts (was tv overkill)

> >i am looking for opinions here- what do y'all think about the way the
> >'soviets' used to sub in people if the 'good' gymnast did not make
> >finals-like in '90 Goodwill Games when svetlana was 'subbed' for
> >chusovitina who was apparently 'hurt' or in '92 when roza galieva was
> >pulled so tatiana could compete in the all-around???
>
>         Well this was not a 'Soviet' trick.  Other teams do it just as
> much, even at Goodwill '90 AA there were like two other teams that did it.

As I recall, it was a Soviet "trick" until about '89 or '90.  Does anyone
remember whether anyone else did this (or at least did it with such
regularity) before that time?

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:26:44 CDT
From:    ***@ADMIN.STEDWARDS.EDU
Subject: Been there, done that (fwd)

>
> Beth's right; the FX poll's been done.  Maybe if Brett still has the
> old results he could add responses from new people? (not to volunteer you or
> anything :) ).
>
I'm fairly new to the group; guess I missed the original poll.  Sorry.

Cole

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:15:16 -0500
From:    ***@SWOSU.EDU
Subject: floor

Hi all

With all the tumbling on horse hair mats or hard floor in the past, was
there any special stretches, warmups that had to be done to avoid injuries
due to the hard pounding.

Marci

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:10:17 -0500
From:    ***@MAIL.COIN.MISSOURI.EDU
Subject: Re: Been there, done that (fwd)

> >
> > Beth's right; the FX poll's been done.  Maybe if Brett still has the
> > old results he could add responses from new people? (not to volunteer you or
> > anything :) ).
> >
> I'm fairly new to the group; guess I missed the original poll.  Sorry.
>
> Cole
>

Me too. I think that a FX poll for women's collegiate gymn should be
done, also. It would be an interesting concept. Any ideas?

--Michael

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:29:52 PDT
From:    ***@MCM.COM
Subject: Re: New Ideas

My thoughts on what
Carl wrote:
--- Begin Included Message ---
1.  Make a D move only 1/2 tenth bonus Note : taking a step would still be a
tenth off.
>horrible idea.  why would anyone want to do a difficult "d" when they know it
 will
>only cause atleast half tenth deduction.

2.  Making some D's 1/2 tenth bonus ( like  1 1/2 back punch front ) and
other D's a full tenth ( like double lay and full-in)
>this is not a bad idea, but it might cause some real confusion in judging the
>first few years.

3.  Connection bonus of 1/2 tenth and 1 tenth and only 2 tenths allowed for
connection bonus total.

4.  Canning the third pass value raise or only giving a value raise if the
third move is of C value or better.

5.  No value raise for swing to strength on rings.
>i think that swinging to strength is maybe even worth more than
>one value raise, so i disagree completely with this, although i
>have never even been able to do a "c" strength move.

    All of these ideas have one basic principle in mind  which is to distingui
sh good athletes or routines from great ones. Although high scores and
attendence seems to be what is needed. ( To keep up with the women)  I would
also like to add a few of my own ideas:

1.  In finals 2 different vaults must be performed (It was this way in 91 and
92 at the EIGL championship - I only know this because I made finals.
>most definately!!!

2.  Kill  the Giant hop, Vault catch,  Veronen, as valid release moves. At
least at the college level . I even question the Thomas (giant full twist
catch) when caught one hand at a time.
> i think that this is less of an issue, just because i think judges already
 distinguish
>scores of routines with these releases.  But it might not be a bad idea.

Thank the lord for the 4 man rule it has made for much closer meets, and for
upsets.

Just for the record there is a 12 man rule for every dual meet and a person
must be in the competitive line up some where to compete in an event if
someone should get hurt.  With the 4 man rule ( only the top 4 scores count
on each event) I don't thing any coach should have a problem with a 9 man
rule. This year almost every team Springfield College competed against used
only 5 men on events one time or another.
                                          Keep your mind fresh in the Chalk
                                                   Peace  :o)   Carl
--- End Included Message ---

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:35:33 PDT
From:    ***@MCM.COM
Subject: Re: Opinion poll

I know hardly any of you will remember this, but i have to bring it
up.  Although she didn't have great tumbling when i saw her competing
it (double tuck mount), the whole set just totally went with the music,
and she really danced her heart out.  The gymnast was Mary(Mimi) Goyer
of Cal.  She was from a gym in Reno, I believe.

Just my .02 worth.
josh
--- Begin Included Message ---

OK.  Here's one for all of you that should get your minds going...

All the talk recently about Shannon's new floor routine inspired a thought :

Whose floor routine do you think was the BEST of all time?  I know, I know,
it's
a tough call but it should generate a lot of discussion!  Here are my picks :


Cole
--- End Included Message ---

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:48:45 PDT
From:    ***@MCM.COM
Subject: Re: Mtn Pacific stuff

Some comments on Texx's prose on Mark Booth (which are included below):
Mark Booth had several very devastating injuries that would have knocked
most people write out of competitive gymnastics.  At regionals in Oklahoma
he broke both ankles on landing his fullin on floor.  he stuck it, and then just
fell down.  Two years later, at the same meet, at the same gym, he broke his
achilles on his opening tumbling pass.  Also, did he have shoulder surgery?
I do agree with a lack of fire, though.  There were many meets where i saw him
warming up an amazing whip to full-in (much higher than anyone elses full-in
 from
handspring), and then he would just implode mentally.  one of two things would
happen in the meet.  he would either scratch completely, or he would water down
his set.

Since the subject of this message is mtn pacific stuff, i will include something
 from
that first meet.  It was floor finals, and mark could have easily won it, but
 after
his second pass, he was a little off balance, and stepped out of bounds.  he
 rolled
his eyes for the rest of his set, with a shit eating grin on his face.  one tiny
 mistake
and he throws the whole routine in the garbage.  he still ended up getting
third on floor.

josh
--- Begin Included Message ---

Well I remember Mark when he started at Stanford.
I also remember the beginning of the end for Mark.
Mark was so cool on p-bar.  He was cool, he was awsome, he was a stud.
One night I saw Jair score a 10 on P-bars.
Mark began a slide into oblivion after that.

Hes got less than a year to make the team and some of us despair that he is
outta time. (How the hell do you re light someones pilot light ?)

--- End Included Message ---

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:08:53 EDT
From:    ***@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: New Ideas

------
1.  Make a D move only 1/2 tenth bonus Note : taking a step would still
be a
tenth off.

2.  Making some D's 1/2 tenth bonus ( like  1 1/2 back punch front ) and
other D's a full tenth ( like double lay and full-in)

3.  Connection bonus of 1/2 tenth and 1 tenth and only 2 tenths allowed
for
connection bonus total.

4.  Canning the third pass value raise or only giving a value raise if
the
third move is of C value or better.
----

The basic problem with scoring is there are two few diffrent
values a move can be. There should be more catagories for moves
not just A-E.  With the bonus there should be some part for
orgianal moves like the code used to have.


But with the current A-E I think it would be better if some floor combos
did not get the higher value;  1 1/2 back punch front would be a C B
not a D, back punch back would be a B B not a C, but a back punch back
full a C, a double back punch front would be a D.



-----
1.  In finals 2 different vaults must be performed (It was this way in
91 and
92 at the EIGL championship - I only know this because I made finals.
-----


I think it would be good if two different vaults had to be preformed
in all meets not just finals like it is now



---
2.  Kill  the Giant hop, Vault catch,  Veronen, as valid release moves.
At
least at the college level . I even question the Thomas (giant full
twist
catch) when caught one hand at a time.
-----

I think those should be release moves. The peson who has a "real"
release move will score higher anyways

The requirements on high bar are already harder to get than the
other events.


-----
Thank the lord for the 4 man rule it has made for much closer meets, and
for
upsets.

Just for the record there is a 12 man rule for every dual meet and a
person
must be in the competitive line up some where to compete in an event if
someone should get hurt.  With the 4 man rule ( only the top 4 scores
count
on each event) I don't thing any coach should have a problem with a 9
man
rule. This year almost every team Springfield College competed against
used
only 5 men on events one time or another.
-----


The 4 man rule is to make closer meets.  It is to help out the weaker
schools.  Men's NCAA gymnastics programs are droping like flies.  This
rule helps weaker programs be closer to the stronger teams.

I think the 12 and 9 man rules are bad.  They discurage people who only
want to do a fue events from doing gymnastics.  It cuts down on the size
of teams which means less people doing gynastics.  I would much rather
see a team of 20 gymnatis with many specialists, than a team of 6
all-arounds.   I think the 12 and 9 man rules have hurt the sport
of gymnastics.


Chris

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:29:55 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: VIDEO MAGAZINE

Just got the latest issue of USA Gymnastics magaizne, and I was wondering if
anyone knew anything about the new video magazine, Inside USA Gymnastics.  It
sounds interesting--has anyone seen a copy?

Ann Marie

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:54:01 -0400
From:    ***@A1.CSOC.UMC.DUPONT.COM
Subject: Superstatrs of Gymnastics

[This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII]

Just thought I'd throw in my .02 about the show.

All in all, it was a very enjoyable evening and the kids I took
had a great time.  For those of you who weren't there, it was a
lot like the Reese's Cup with a number of dance routines thrown
in.  Moceanu, Hatagan, Milosovici, Gogean, and Zmeskel all did
competitive(albeit watered down) routines on bars, beam and floor
while everyone else did a mixture of things (fun and serious).

For me, the highlight of the night was Paul Hunt (aka Paulina
Huntesque <sp?>).  He was absolutely HILARIOUS!  His mock
routines show a knack for physical comedy that I would equate
with the best clowns in the world.  He must have worked on these
routines for a long time.

My personal favorite was the back layout to his stomach that
Sally already mentioned.  What she didn't say was how he led up
to it.  He started the pass with RO FF and then set for...
something, and then he got "that look" that you see in a young
gymnast's face that tells you they have completely forgotten what
they started out to do.  It was a perfect, staring into the
headlights, deer stare.  He did a 3/4 layout and totally faced
it, bouncing about three times after landing.  I nearly wet my
pants.  You all have to watch for this in July when it is
broadcast.

You can stop reading this now while I vent.

[soapbox mode on...]

We received a letter from Spectrum group services inviting us to
a pre-show "chalk talk" clinic.  While there was no promise of
actual interaction with the gymnasts in the show, I think that
use of the term clinic implies that some exchange of useful
information is going to take place.

Now, I wouldn't be complaining if the "clinic" had been
immediately before the show but it was scheduled for four o'clock
in the afternoon on a weekday.  This meant getting kids out of
school, arranging transportation by non-working parents, and
showing up three hours before the event was scheduled to begin.

The clinic consisted of Bela rambling for a half hour about how
we were all "little wieners" (I liked this, Sally) and how
wonderful were the gymnasts from his humble gym.  We were also
introduced to some of the gymnasts who would be in the show (this
"some" consisted of the ROM. team and the girls from his club).
We were then personally invited to attend his wonderful summer
camp this year.  Then we were invited again. And once more for
good measure.

I'm done now.  If anyone has an address where I can write Paul
Ziert about this I would appreciate it.  No need to send me the
IG address, I know that one already.  I'm just looking for a way
to make sure that he hears what I have to say.  Thanks for
putting up with my ranting.

-Jim

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:27:00 PDT
From:    ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Best FX routines

 Its a tough call but:


   Olga Strazheva - 1989 Worlds
   Elena Sazonenkova - the Bach routine (1991 University Games)
   Bogi - 1988 Olympics
   Olga Chudina - 1987 Kraft INt'l
   Khrabrina Khrabrova - 1988 Olympics (Bolero as only a Bulgarian can do it)
   Silvia Mitova - the blues
   Bogi - 1990 World Cup ( a piece by Karakirev maybe?)

   I call the Bogy World CUp routine the museum piece routine because
  it isnt as interactive as her others, but its just something you
  stare at in bewilderment and think "Its so beautiful"

   Strazh, Mitova, and Saz's FX are my personal favs...

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:38:00 PDT
From:    ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Mary Lou - announcer

Heya..

Amy (my partner in crime) and I got our hands on the raw NBC live
coverage from 88 Olympics and so we got to hear all the commentary
that went on during the commercials when the rest of the world
was watching Kodak ads... anyway... MAry Lou was completely
cool during the commercials, quite honest about things... which
was refreshing.. she even was talking about her pics and her and
Bart and door #3 (I dont remember who it was) were talking about
Shushunova and Mary Lou said "SHe's mine.  I always pull for dem
strong lookin' ones"... that is a total quote, we still have the
audio...

Mary Lou also said things like "The Soviets should be farther ahead
than they are" and "Make sure to get Voinea's floor"

THere were a few other things that she said but they don't come to
mind right now...

------------------------------

End of GYMN-L Digest - 5 Apr 1995 to 6 Apr 1995 - Special issue
***************************************************************