gymn
Digest
Sun, 11 Dec 94 Volume 3 :
Issue 44
Today's
Topics:
...
Amy Chow
Australia and World's (2 msgs)
Cheers for the USA Women ... (4 msgs)
Cheers for the USA Women Team (2 msgs)
Dortmond worlds
report #1
Dortmond Worlds Report #2
Gym Stars Order Form
Kerri Strug
n.c.'s visit to rom
with b.c.
Plans for Shannon?
Qualifying
Into Dortmund (was Re: Australia and World's)
Shannon's tremendous gift
shannon fiasco.... (2
msgs)
Shannon Miller (2 msgs)
Temple
US Mens Program
This is a digest of
the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Dec 1994 20:08:23 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: ...
>underrated forgotten gymnast of the week: Irina Baraksanova
For this week:
Antje Wilkenloh
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 21:31:03 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Amy
Chow
>What was going on with Amy Chow (I must have missed a
post)?
Amy had some
serious first-Worlds' jitters. She
was shaky during
compulsories, then fell on her
last compulsory event, bars. in prelimirary
optionals the jitters got worse,
and she fell from bars, beam (3 times), was
shaky
on floor, and sat down both vaults.
During finals, though, the US put
one of her coaches on the floor with her
(Nunno
and Tracy had been on the floor during compos, Akopian
and Hill during
prelim optionals). She hit all four events (slightly shaky
bars) and seemed
to gain more confidence after
each one.
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 03:44:14 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Australia
and World's
>Because this was a team event only they selected the
teams from how they
placed their regional
championships. Australia is not a
part of any of the
regional championships, and
thus did not have an opportunity >to qualify.
Didn't some of the teams
qualify from how they placed at Indy (and/or
Barcelona)? When Adriana reported the North America
qualifier for men, she
had said that the US &
Canada didn't have to qualify.
Also, I don't recall
hearing anything about
qualifying for women.
Since Australia finished 7th in Barcelona and
6th in Indy for the women, I'm
surprised they wren't pre-qualified.
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 08:47:41 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject:
Australia and World's
> Didn't some of the teams qualify from how
they placed at Indy (and/or
> Barcelona)? When Adriana reported the North America
qualifier for men, she
> had said that the US
& Canada didn't have to qualify.
Also, I don't recall
> hearing anything
about qualifying for women.
>
> Since Australia finished 7th in
Barcelona and 6th in Indy for the women, I'm
> surprised
they wren't pre-qualified.
>
>
Mara
>
Quick correction: the qualifier was for all of the
Americas and only the
US didn't have to qualify (Canada did).
If
Australia didn't go because they weren't part of any regional
qualifier, that is the most absurd thing I have ever
heard. How did this
happen? Where was Australia months ago when they
were figuring out who
would
go? Somehow, I find it hard to
believe Australia would just sit
back and not say
anything, but I find it even harder to believe that if they
did say something, the FIG would say, sorry, you can't
prequalify or
compete in any qualifier.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 07:37:12 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Cheers for
the USA Women ...
Nobody did.
I was referring to the booing that Shannon received. I know the
audience
was booing at the score but they should have thought about how
Shannon
would have felt. I know that
although I know they were booing the
score, the
jeers are directed towards the athlete in a way and can affect
them psychologically.---Brian
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 08:51:50 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject:
Cheers for the USA Women ...
> Nobody did. I was referring to the booing that
Shannon received. I know the
>
audience was booing at the score but they should have
thought about how
> Shannon would have felt. I know that although I know they were
booing the
> score, the jeers are directed
towards the athlete in a way and can affect
> them
psychologically.---Brian
Ah, I understand what you mean. I thought you were talking about Gymn.
Did
it really seem like the booing was directed at Shannon? Booing has
always
seemed to me to be directed at the judges, but on the other hand,
I don't
seem to recall any booing for *overscoring* ever, and
maybe that
changes how it comes off.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 22:40:19 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Cheers for
the USA Women ...
Yeah I don't recall either any competition where overscoring was booed.
Only
underscoring (at least at times when
the audience thought it was underscoring
when it
was correct or over i.e. Barcelona.)
I don't know whether or not
they would boo
Shannon but regardless. It probably
affected her some. I
doubt she's ever been booed in her career.---Brian
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 22:32:08 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Cheers
for the USA Women ...
>
I doubt she's ever been booed in her career.---Brian
>
Well, she wasn't being booed. The judges were being booed. She's not
six
years old, I'm sure she knows it.
She made several glaring errors
that were
virtually ignored, at the expense of all the other athletes.
Can we move on to something else
please?
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 03:44:58 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Cheers for
the USA Women Team
> I know lots of
people are surprised that the US took silver,
and
maybe a little angry. The fact is
the US girls did a great job.
I
do have to agree that the US Women deserved the silver.
They were in a rather
unfortunate situation (morale-wise, etc.), particularly
Amy Chow, and
pulled together very well. Yes, the
Russians and the Chinese
had opportunities to take
the silver, but problems on BB (Russia) and vault
(China) kept them from
capitalizing. That's why they call
it a competition.
]
Incidentally, I don't think the US Women were overscored in finals.
They had
*definitely* been overscored in compulsories, but after the UB fiasco,
the
judges seemed overly careful not to overscore the US in optionals or
finals.
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 94 8:08:52 PST
From: ***@sol.metaware.com
Subject: Cheers
for the USA Women Team
> I do have to agree that the US Women
deserved the silver.
>
> They were in a rather unfortunate situation (morale-wise, etc.),
particularly
> Amy Chow, and pulled together very well. Yes, the Russians and the Chinese
>
had opportunities to take the silver, but problems on
BB (Russia) and vault
> (China) kept them from capitalizing. That's why they call it a
competition.
What was going on with Amy Chow (I must have missed a
post)?
--Robin
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Dec 1994 00:09:57 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Dortmond worlds report #1
>beam.Perhaps the results might
have
> been differ
> ent had Svetlanta Ivanova not been injured.
Svetlana Ivanova did compete, for Bulgaria. Natasha Ivanova
for Russia was
the one who broke her foot.
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Dec 1994 20:22:00 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Dortmond Worlds Report #2
>-Scherbo
was in the best shape I've seen since Barcelona.Did
the same
sets as in Brisbane,but
looked much sharper.
More importantly, he's actually learned how to
play nice with others!
>-Elena Piskun was
the best all around gymnast there(IMHO).
While
I didn't think she was the best all-arounder there
(that honor would
have to go to Pod, IMHO), Piskun's floor just gets better and better and
better...
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 29 Nov 1994 14:09:04 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Gym
Stars Order Form
rah rah
the Mogilny is cool
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 01 Dec 94 18:37 PST
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Kerri Strug
Kerri Strug has
signed a letter of intent to attend UCLA after the
1996 Olympics...
Oh
Joy!
I wonder which gymnast she'll imitate here... hopefully
Stella...
Brett
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 01 Dec 94 15:45:57 EST
From: ***@email.cfr.org
Subject: n.c.'s visit to rom with b.c.
Well, since it's rather slow, what the heck....some news about Nadia's visit
to
Romania from Reuters World Service:
-Large crowds, kids
"chanting" "Nadia, Nadia,..."..
-Visits
with President, Prime Minister, Orthodox Church
Patriarch.
-On the catwalk of fashion show in white fur coat while the
newly rich watched.
-Visit to Onesti,
"Nadia, Nadia,...etc.", renaming of old gym
with her name.
-Engagement with B. Conner blessed in an Orthodox
ceremony at Deva
training center with Romanian national team in
attendance.
All or some of the above (described as "well
scripted" in one report) has been
capture by
ABC to be broadcast in the spring.
I hope I've not pained anyone *too*
much with this post...
Connie
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Dec 1994 01:27:22 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Plans for
Shannon?
Has anyone heard any info on whether or not Shannon intends
to take a break
from competition for awhile and
learn new skills, let her injuries heal and
rest
up? I really hope both she and
Steve are smart about this. This
next
year will really make or break Shannon in
terms of her being peaked and
prepared for Atlanta
or being burned out by that time and to tired and/or
injured
to compete. Anybody have any
thoughts on this subject?---Brian
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 15:44:48 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Qualifying
Into Dortmund (was Re: Australia and World's)
Teams were automatically
qualified into Dortmund if they were part of the
Barcelona Olympics.
Therefore the Austrailian Women *did* have a bye but
the
men did not. The women's team, according to
their federation, was "not ready
for
competition at this time." They (meaning Australia) *did* have a
men's
team set to go but the FIG
"forgot" them in the continental (not regional)
qualifiers.
Originally Dortmund was supposed to be
a "small" worlds featuring only the
very
top teams but the breakup of the Soviet Union (and a few other factors)
made them re-think their strategy many times over (and it
showed in their
complete & total
disorganization ... I've seen regional meets run with more
effort).
-Susan
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 03:46:14 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Shannon's
tremendous gift
>What was truly embarrassing more than the score
was Steve's blatant joy
over the score. Throwing his arms up in triumph was a
bit beyond what most
of the people sitting around
me could handle.
The interesting thing that got overlooked two nights
later was that *this*
score made the difference
between the US Women finishing preliminaries in 2nd
or
in 4th, as less then 0.1 separated the US, China and Russia after
preliminaries (C & O).
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 1994 23:03:33 -0500
From: ***@wam.umd.edu
Subject: shannon fiasco....
Could
someone provide some clarification on this 'over scoring' of
shannon's comp bar routine....what
is the max one can lose on an'
extra swing and
where whould this have put her score for a max
or
min reduction...were there any other flaws in
the the routine??
thanks
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Dec 1994 20:21:39 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: shannon fiasco....
>Could
someone provide some clarification on this 'over scoring' of
shannon's comp bar routine....what
is the max one can lose on an'
extra swing and where
whould this have put her score for a max or
>min reduction...were there any other flaws in the the routine??
>From what I observed, the issue
is that the judges deducted only for an extra
swing,
while the control judges (whose scores does not count) and just about
everyone else felt there was substantially more to
deduct. Let me explain:
Shannon
was doing a beautiful routine until the last 4 moves (hecht to high
bar, kip
cast to handstand, giant, tucked Comaneci dismount). She only
caught
the high bar on the tips of her fingernails on the hecht,
and this set
her a bit off casting into the
handstand. She did the giant, and
then she
balked out of the toe-on and dropped to a
dead hang. She then did
another
kip cast to handstand, giant, and Comaneci
dismount to complete the set.
Here was the controversy.
-The judges view was that
since her toes did not actually touch the bar, she
did
not begin the dismount. Also,
Jackie Fie stated that the rules allowed
her to go
back up to three moves to regain her rhythm.
-The "three moves to
regain momentum" are allowed after a miss or fall (in
fact the example Fie used was a man falling off high bar!),
but the judges
essentially were claiming there was
no miss or fall.
-Logic
would argue that if there was no miss or fall she
would not get to
repeat the three moves.
As
a side argument, IMHO Shannon's error was essentially a fall while still
holding on to the bar, in the same way that a gymnast can
say, be way off on
a move on BB, grab the beam and
not actually fall off, but still get deducted
almost
for a fall.
To the judges out there, I would love to hear your
thoughts (publicly or
privately) on the
above.
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 29 Nov 94 18:05 PST
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Shannon
Miller
Shannon Miller is no longer a gymnast but a corporation.
Too
bad she doesnt seem to own any shares.
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 29 Nov 1994 23:18:14 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@db.erau.edu
Subject:
Shannon Miller
I totaly agree with this
view. the
worst part is that I "work" for the
corpation and no one has control over the machine. I am now
looking for
other ways to work in the sport of
gymnastics without being totaly
reliant on Dynmo. Any Hints, job leads, offers?
Jaye "Jimmy Olsen" Howell
On Tue, 29 Nov
1994, Brett wrote:
>
>
> Shannon Miller is no
longer a gymnast but a corporation.
>
> Too bad she doesnt seem to own any shares.
>
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Dec 1994 12:38:48 +1000
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject:
Temple
I am making this post with the heaviest of hearts.
Temple
has decided, today, to drop men and women's gymnastics and baseball.
The programs will end on June 30,
1995.
I received the phone call from Fred (Turoff)
this morning and heard it has
now been announced
on our local radio around 11 am this morning. In the
near
future I will be posting information on the possibilities of saving
these programs.
Right now the men are getting ready to compete in the UMass
open at Amherst
- the competion
is Sat. at 7PM - Michigan, Syracuse, Southern Conn, MIT,
UVM, Temple, Penn
State will be competing for the team title and on Sunday
individuals
will compete in comps at 11am for qualifying to Nationals.
Anyone who
lives in the area - please come out and show support for men's
gymnastics - These men has worked all of their lives and it
is being taken
away from them in one day .
Thank
you for your time and hopefully your caring.
Mayland
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 30 Nov 94 10:54 PST
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: US Mens Program
Ok, this is a topic that has been
bothering me for a while now...
The US Mens
team seems to get a lot of crap from a lot of people concerning
their placings in int'l competitons...
Yes, it is true, the US Men
are not
terribly close to challenging for a
medal in team competitions... now get
over
it..
THe US Mens
should be appreciated for the placings they do win.. THere is
nothing
wrong with placing in the top 10 in the world. I'm sure in 1991, the
Italian team
was very well respected in Italy for placing 7th. Over here, they
would be castrated.
Great Britian was ecstatic that they
qualified for the Olympics in 92, why can't we be the same
way?
Ever since the McOlympics of 1984, we
seem to have this obsession with placing
1st, with being the best etc... Its a sort of mis-channeled
patriotism that
keeps us from appreciating the
gymnasts we do have. Let us
remember that
gymnastics is not really much of a
priority among young kids (esp boys) in
the US. John Rothlesberger (sp) got some crap
from people when he
exclaimed in frustration that
we had some fine athletes in the mens program. I
can partly
understand his frustration, they are doing a strong level of
gymnastics but getting reamed for not winning. WHats up with that?
Thats all
for now....
Brett
------------------------------
End
of gymn Digest
******************************