GYMN-L Digest - 19 Jul 1995 to 20 Jul 1995

There are 10 messages totalling 373 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Shushunova (was Gurova et al)
2. South Australian Gymnastics Champs (2)
3. Silivas? & Shushunova (was Gurova et al) (2)
4. heights (4)
5. Tall male Gymnasts

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 00:49:40 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Shushunova (was Gurova et al)

>Perhaps Shushunova was not the best example, too, but in my book,
she peaked in 1986, and then went down hill fast. Here apparent
success early, then her lack of sucess at the european juniors in
1984 perhaps saved her from burning out fast.<

Hmm... I must say I don't see in what way Shushunova went "downhill fast"
after '86. As I see it, her vaulting remained pretty much the same
throughout (the rest of the world eventually just started catching up and
then surpassing her). Her bars (imho underrated) only got better in '87 with
the addition of her Shushunova, and they remained the same in '88 without any
reduction in quality that I could see. She retained the same difficulty on
beam too, and I don't think her performance got any worse (though not better
either). Her only reduction in difficulty was in her first pass on floor
(double layout in '86; whip to full-in in '87; full-in in'88 -- still decent,
especially considering her other difficulty), but the quality of her dance
and expression only improved every year, especially from '87 to '88, and
overall I liked it best in '88 (I love that routine).

:-)
Adriana

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:11:00 -0600
From: ***@MEDICINE.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU
Subject: South Australian Gymnastics Champs

On the 14th and 15th of July I attended the South Australian
Gymnastics Championships. It included women's levels 7-10, men's
levels 3-10, rhythmic 4-6 and Elite competitors. It was only the
second competition I had been to as a spectator and I enjoyed every
minute.

On the back of the ticket it had 'Rebecca Stoyel's Success Story'
which I thought some of you might be interested in reading (Rebecca
began her training in SA so I guess they wanted to brag!)

Rebecca Stoyels Success Story
Rebecca started gymnastics at Glenelg YMCA and then transferred as a
founding member of the Focus School Squad in 1989
1991-SA Junior Gymnast of the Year
State Champion Jnr Elite
1992-National Champion Jnr Elite
SA Junior Gymnast of the Year
1993-State champion Jnr Elite
SA Junior Gymnast of the Year
1994-National Senior gymnast of the year
Gold/Silver/Bronze medalist at Commonwealth Games
1995-American Tour
2nd overall in Nevada
7th overall in Houston
1st overall in Atlanta

Can any one tell me about these events held in America? (Who else
competed etc.)
Anyway, some bits about the competition. I had some friends competing
in Anne-Marie Williamson (Jnr Elite) and Masako Amemiya (L9).
Anne-Marie is the only Jnr Elite in SA so she was in a rotation with
the level 10s. This didn't mean that she immediately got the gold- she
had to get an 8.0 average which is the national qualifying score.
Floor for Anne-Marie was a double tuck, double twist and handspring
1/1/2 twist:8.65. Bars was perhaps her weakest with an extra swing
after a stalder (she didn't have enough momentum to get all the way
around an dup to the high bar) She scored around an 8.0. I can't
remember her score from vault but I know she did a nice clean
handspring front tuck. Beam, her favourite was probably her best. She
began with a punch front continued with another one, lots of good
jumps, ff ff layout and I think a double twist off. I didn't get her
score because the little score girls were too busy showing off their
splits to turn the board around!

For the men there was quite a lot of releases of high bar that were
never re-caught,result? OUCH! Overall SA has some very good level 10
and Elite guys especially Russell D'Costa and Dejan Ristic. Before
this competition I had never heard of such a thing as Under 9 Elite
for boys. Gee whiz those guys are tiny! It scares me to think that
someone can be 8 and do a perfect double layout off the high bar!!!

I didn't watch much rhythmic because I'm not a fan but one girl really
caught my eye. I found out later that she was sub junior elite Lee
O'Brien who is 11 and finished third at nationals this year. Now there
is someone to look out for.

Well, I'm now finished blabbing about my small hometown meet. I hope I
haven't bored you all. Rebecca Stoyel was presenting the awards and
afterwards I got to meet her. She is a bit shy and seemed awed by all
the little girls asking for autographs but is really very nice. By the
way watch out for Anne-Marie in later competitions, she is aiming for
Sydney 2000.

Bye! Tara

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:46:19 +1000
From: ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Silivas? & Shushunova (was Gurova et al)

I think it's interesting that in assessing those whose Euro Junior
careers were nothing to speak of, but went on to greatness, no one has
mentioned Silivas. She had to have had one of the longest 'modern day'
(to me that's 70+, I consider all that happened before that a joke, sorry
if that offends anyone, it's just that I look at tapes of those old meets
and laugh) careers on record, and she began it with a win. She
won the 83 Junior International in Japan with some amazing difficulty,
including 4 flick-flacks, consecutive layouts and a double tuck off BB,
and a floor routine that included a piked full-in and tripple
twist.......OK, so her vault (handspring tucked bariani) was the worst on
record, but come on, she was only about 3 foot 10 inches (no exageration,
she looked like she was 8 even by gym standards!)

After finishing behind Baraksanova & Zabrodina in the AA at 84 Euro
Juniors in Rimini, and winning BB, she went on, in my opinion, to become
the greatest female gymnast in history.............what I wouldn't do to
see Shushunova's AA vault in Seoul scored fairly!

On a completely different note, who's counting FX music changes? It hit
me last night how many different FX routines Gutsu did during her
international career. I have the tally at 8 over her 4 year career.
Does anyone else average more than 2 per year? I know Bog went through a
bundle.........

Here are all the meets I've found where Gutsu used different music:

1989 Moscow News
1990 World Sports Fair
1990 Open Japanese Juniors (and I think 1990 USA v USSR)
1991 European Cup
1991 Worlds
1991 DTB Cup
1992 Moscow News
1992 Olympics

Just thinking
Michelle

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:17:48 CDT
From: ***@ADMIN.STEDWARDS.EDU
Subject: Re: Silivas? & Shushunova (was Gurova et al)

> After finishing behind Baraksanova & Zabrodina in the AA at 84 Euro
> Juniors in Rimini, and winning BB, she went on, in my opinion, to become
> the greatest female gymnast in history.............what I wouldn't do to
> see Shushunova's AA vault in Seoul scored fairly!
>
I think Silivas won more world and olympic medals than than anyone since Larissa
Latynina, if I remember correctly. And I have *always* believed that the AA
gold in Seoul should have been Daniela's. If you go back and look at the final
vaults of both gymnasts, what you will see on the first vault is a SLIGHT scoot
of Daniela's feet on the landing (which was not detectable unless seen in
slo-mo) and a HUGE arm wave, balance check on Shushunova's. So why the 10?

Seoul, of course, was not known for fair scoring. Remember Dagmar Kersten's
bars final? Clear hop forward on the landing, and the judges still scored her
a 10!

We could probably start a HUGE discussion about unfair scoring. Didn't mean to
open up a can of worms. :)


Cole

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:14:52 PDT
From: ***@ROYALDIGITAL.COM
Subject: Re: South Australian Gymnastics Champs

> Subject: South Australian Gymnastics Champs
>
> For the men there was quite a lot of releases of high bar that were
> never re-caught,result? OUCH! Overall SA has some very good level 10
> and Elite guys especially Russell D'Costa and Dejan Ristic. Before
> this competition I had never heard of such a thing as Under 9 Elite
> for boys. Gee whiz those guys are tiny! It scares me to think that
> someone can be 8 and do a perfect double layout off the high bar!!!
>

Call me an overprotective mom, but I don't like to idea of an
8-year-old boy or girl doing double layouts except on tramp
or into a pit. Even done perfectly, that is a lot of strain
to put on developing joints.

Diane

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:37:47 -0500
From: ***@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU
Subject: heights

Is it my imagination, or has the height ceiling for female gymnasts gone
_way_ up over the last few years? I remember thinking 5 feet was tall for
a gymnast, but I'm amazed at how many 5 ft. plus international gymnasts
there are out there. Here's my list--anyone got any others?

Khorkina 5'4
Milo 5' 3 1/2
Hatagan 5' 3 1/2
Boguinskaya (just how tall is she?)
Gogean 5' 2
Luo Li 5' 0

I can think of some others who may or may not be over 5 feet tall. Amanar?
Dawes? Bican?

In what ways has the sport changed to support taller women? I absolutely _love_
watching them, but I'm always surprised by what they can do.

Also, why are the Romanians so tall? I've been to Romania, and it is _not_
a tall country overall. Is it because of the amount of sleep they get, or
perhaps because the gymnasts are chosen when it's too early to tell how
tall they'll eventually become?

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:44:53 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Re: heights

I had no idea that the Romanians were so tall. They seem to be doing well,
too. I was surprised to see that Milo is almost (1/2 inch less) as tall as
Khorkina. Khorkina's body type, they say, prevents her from doing double
layouts. It seems to not bother Milo, or Gogean, for that fact.

I always thought Shannon was tall. Anyone know her height?

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:20:21 -0700
From: ***@MCN.ORG
Subject: Re: heights

>I had no idea that the Romanians were so tall. They seem to be doing well,
>too. I was surprised to see that Milo is almost (1/2 inch less) as tall as
>Khorkina. Khorkina's body type, they say, prevents her from doing double
>layouts. It seems to not bother Milo, or Gogean, for that fact.

Khorkina's body is quite different from Milo's or Gogean's, even if they are
almost the same height. She's very slender and doesn't seem the power type
like Milo.

>I always thought Shannon was tall. Anyone know her height?
>

Last I heard Shannon was about 4'10'' at the Pan Am games. She was 4'6'' in
Barcelona. I think Dawes is 5' if not 5'1'', and was 4'8'' in Barcelona. And
Betty Okino was 5'1'' then I think, and was said to be 5'5'' at the Danskin
thing in Mexico.

During the Superstars of Gymnastics they said Bogie was 5'3 3/4''. I think
she was almost 5'3'' in Barcelona.

What about Monica Martin of Spain? She looks pretty darn tall to me, but I
don't know her height.

How about men's heights? I know Nemov is known for being tall because he's
so good, but I know there are other's at least as tall.

Mihai Bagiu 5'9''
Alexei Nemov 5'8''
Trent Dimas 5'8''
Zoltan Supola 5'8''?
Dmitri Bilozerchev 5'7'' or 5'8''?
Vitali Rudnitsky 5'7''?
John Roethlisberger 5'7''
Richard Grace and Li Xiaoshuang 5'0'' (whoops, wrong list)

Orion

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:54:11 -0600
From: ***@HARRIER.SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: heights

Hi all,

Interesting topic...

>I can think of some others who may or may not be over 5 feet tall. Amanar?
>Dawes? Bican?

The Yurkina sisters must be slightly over 5 feet. We can't forget many
from the immediate past (Polokova, Yurchenko, Stoyanova & Nadia in later years,
the Chinese girls from the early '80s) and of course collegiate gymnasts.
Kim Hamilton, Sandra Botnen, and Leah Brown come to mind (all 5'8"!!!)


>In what ways has the sport changed to support taller women? I absolutely
_love_
>watching them, but I'm always surprised by what they can do.

If you look at results, you'll find that a taller gymnast sticks around
longer. Nadia, Bogie, Stoyanova, Polokova, etc. all *continued* to improve
as they got older. Of course, they did have a "down time" as their bodies
changed, but
puberty doesn't seem to be as "career-threatening" for a taller gymnast
as it is for a shorter gymnast. (Not meaning to sound cruel ... it's just
an observation.)

For example, Khorky will be around as long as she well pleases. If she put
on 20 pounds it would only improve her performance ... after she adjusted to
the weight. Whereas, if Kochetkova put on 20 pounds, she would look quite
out of
shape and stocky.

The main way I can think of that the sport has changed to support taller
women is, obviously, the width of the uneven bars. Of course, shorter
gymnasts don't exactly object to that ;) but that change probably kept
many taller gymnasts from retiring.

IMHO, a taller gymnast looks better ... more graceful, more elegant.

Excuse me, it's not taller ... I believe the politically correct term
is "vertically enhanced".... ~:-)


>Also, why are the Romanians so tall? I've been to Romania, and it is _not_
>a tall country overall. Is it because of the amount of sleep they get, or
>perhaps because the gymnasts are chosen when it's too early to tell how
>tall they'll eventually become?

-For those of you that have seen the documentary "The Romanian Dream"
you'll know their "screening" procedure for selecting young girls.
The ROM coaches (at least the ones in the documentary) preferred
girls with longer arms and legs and they would take a look at the
parents and grand-parents to predict how the girl would grow
and thus decide whether or not she was "suitable" for gymnastics.
They don't want the short/stocky gymnasts. I assume because they
know that a taller person will be leaner, thus less worrying
about weight/appearance etc.

Hope to stir up a little discussion here...

-----------------------------
DORY --- the guy from Canada
-----------------------------

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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 20:15:51 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Tall male Gymnasts

Sorry, Male should have been capitalized in the subject!

Alexander Ditian and Casimero Suarez (Cuba) were fairly tall and both
had long careers in gymnastics. BTW: I finished competeing Collegiate
gymnastics in 1988, at the ripe old height of 6'2"! It just took forever
to get a double back around!


Jeff

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 19 Jul 1995 to 20 Jul 1995
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