GYMN-L Digest - 20 Apr 1995 to 21 Apr 1995 - Special
issue
There are 33 messages totalling 1017
lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. new
subscriber (7)
2. SI slams
rhythmic gymnastics (2)
3. back tuck sideways on beam
4. Negativity (3)
5. NCAA Men's Champs: Team prelims -- AA
finals (3)
6. Fwd: Re: Negativity
7. ...no
subject...
8. Atlanta
Olympics
9. NCAA
Nationals
10. Mo Huilan
11.
Ann Marie's post
12. Longer FX
routines
13. Junior Compulsaries
14. SI Article
15. Rhythmic Gymnastics
16. Olympic Specials
17. SI slams R-mics
(suck eggs SI)
18.
Negativity/Hillary Grivich
19. Zmeskal's
vaults
20. triple
back off unevens
21. Improving Floor.
22. Trivia Answers #28 - Beam and PH
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:06:59
-0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject:
Re: new subscriber
> behind on current
gymnastics. I know that there have
been a few men who
> have been able to throw a
triple back, but I was wondering if there have
> been
any women either on floor or off bars who have been able to do it.
>
With the way gymnastics has changed just in the last couple of years, I
>
wouldn't be too surprised if there have been some
women. But I know that
> it is a terribly difficult move.
Not dumb at
all! Natalia Laschenova
was rumored to have worked a
triple on FX, but no
woman I know of has ever thrown it in a meet. I
think
Dina Kochetkova used to do a triple off bars (or was
it
Fabrichnova?), and wasn't there recently a
post here saying someone
else did it too?
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:35:41
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Re: SI slams rhythmic gymnastics
On Wed, 19 Apr 1995, ***@AOL.COM
writes,
The [SI] headline is "Callng Arthur
Murray: Ballroom dancing has as much
right to be
in th Olympics as, say, rhythmic
gymnastics." Later he
says,
"Let then make room (for the sport) by throwing out synchronized
swimming and
rhythmic gymnastics, two ridiculous
activities."
Any comments?
Sure, I've got some
comments. Somebody needs to hit
this man in the head
with a large brick! RSG requires as much or more physical
ability than any
other sport. Rhythmic gymnasts must have balance,
grace, coordination, and
strength throughout an
incredible range of motion. What
other sport requires
all that? I suppose the author thinks that it's
much more respectable to be
able to throw a ball
through a basket. What is
"ridiculous" is that people
who are good
at that make millions of dollars, while true athletes/artists
constantly have to struggle to justify their existance.
Surely, if RSG was
raking in tons of money,
we wouldn't be hearing a peep out of this guy. It's
bad
enough that SI neglects to adaquately cover RSG. They're really crossing
the line by trying to squash a sport that many people love
and respect. And,
as for Ballroom Dancing... why not?
Tige
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:57:13
-18521200
From: ***@MADRAD.RADIOLOGY.WISC.EDU
Subject:
back tuck sideways on beam
Regarding the back tuck across the beam,
I seem to remember a Soviet
gymnast doing it in
the 80's (Schudinova,
Yudina, or Koval?),
since
I remember seeing the sequence in IG.
With
the triple back on floor, Natalia
Laschenova used
to practice it on the tumbling
strip. I'm not sure if she ever did it on
the
regular floor ex mat.
Lani.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:59:28
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Negativity
In regards to negativity on GYMN (especially the recent Grivich post),
I would just like to say that I feel
that if even only one person is
offended by a
post, that is one too many. Is GYMN
a free-for-all, or
are there certain, perhaps
unwritten, rules? I'd be interested
to
hear from some of the original members of
GYMN. I think people need
to remember to be careful with how they word their
posts.
On a computer, human
emotion gets lost and it is often hard to tell
whether
people are intentionally being mean or just stating something.
It's not
honest critique that offends people--after all, this is a
discussion group.
However, some people make the argument that they
can
say whatever they like about a gymnast's performance because it's
not an attack on them.
However, how do you think Hilary would have
felt
if she had read that post? Maybe
she did--who knows? When a
person puts as much time and effort into something the way
these
gymnasts have, it IS personal. Can't we discuss someone's bad toe
point, for example, without using it as a forum to attack
her hair,
leotard, etc? That's just my opinion. What do the rest of you think?
I'd
especially love to hear from some of the "lurkers"!
Ann
Marie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:33:57
-0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject:
NCAA Men's Champs: Team prelims -- AA finals
Many thanks to Mayland for giving me a text file
of the scores!
53rd Annual National Collegiate Men's Gymnastics
Championships
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
April 20-22,
1995
Team
(top three advance to team finals
tomorrow night)
1. Univ. of Nebraska, 230.425
2. Stanford Univ.,
230.075
3. Penn State Univ., 228.900
4. Univ. of Oklahoma, 228.725
tie Ohio State Univ., 228.725
6. Univ. of Iowa,
227.925
ALL-AROUND
FX PH R V PB HB TOTAL
1. Richard Grace 9825 9675 9800 9725 9700 9600
58.325 Univ. of Nebraska
2. Darren Elg 9900 9700 9650
9350 9625 9750 57.975 Brigham Young Univ.
3. Josh Stein 9825 9800 9800 9450 9200 9700 57.775 Stanford Univ.
4. Blaine Wilson 9675 9550 9900 9400 9600 9650
57.775 Ohio State Univ.
5. Blaz Puljic 9450 9825 9700 9250
9700 9775 57.700 Univ. of New Mexico
6. Jeremy Killen 9750 9550 9450 9450
9400 9800 57.400 Univ. of Oklahoma
7. Brian Yee 9525 9800
9550 9700 9200 9550 57.325 Univ. of Minnesota
8. Jason Christie 9700 9650 9675 9100 9450 9725
57.300 Univ. of Nebraska
9. Danny Akerman 9550 9750 9450 9250 9600 9450
57.050 Temple Univ.
10. Keith Wiley 9875 9150 9400 9750
9500 9300 56.975 Stanford Univ.
11. Rick Kieffer 9650 8800 9700 9450 9550
9800 56.950 Univ. of Nebraska
12. Drew Durbin 9050 9900 9625 9250
9725 9400 56.950 Ohio State Univ.
13. Casey Bryan 9725 9250 9200 9300
9600 9700 56.775 Univ. of Oklahoma
14. Tyler Vogt 9600 9400 9700
9200 9500 9100 56.500 Univ. of Iowa
15. Tony Pansy 9650 8250 9800
9250 9700 9650 56.300 Penn State Univ.
16. Josh Birckelbaw
9450 9700 9625 9250 8850 9400 56.275 UC Berkley
17. Jay Thornton 9825 9000 9550 8350 9800
9625 56.150 Univ. of Iowa
18. Lee Ricketts 9400 9525 9050 9100 9350
9650 56.075 Penn State Univ.
19. Dan Fink 9550
8350 9700 9200 9450 9525 55.775 Univ. of Oklahoma
20. Steve Marshall 9200
8750 9300 9500 9450 9550 55.750 Army
21. Brandy Wood 9575 9350 9650 8800
9450 8750 55.575 Penn State Univ.
22. Jamie
Ellis 9600 9100
9000 9100 9650 7300 53.750 Stanford Univ.
Individual Event
Qualifiers:
Floor
1. Darren Elg, BYU,
9.90
2. Keith Wiley, Stanford, 9.875
3. Daniel Stover, Oklahoma,
9.85
4t. Jay Thornton, Iowa, 9.825
4t. Richard Grace, Nebraska,
9.825
4t. Josh Stein, Stanford, 9.825
7. Brian Winkler, Michigan,
9.80
8t. Jeremy Killen, Oklahoma, 9.75
8t. Darin Gerlach,
Temple, 9.75
Pommel Horse
1. Drew Durbin, Ohio, 9.90
2t.
Jeremiah Landry, Illinois, 9.825
2t. Blaz Puljic, New Mexico, 9.825
4t. Brian Yee, Minnesota,
9.80
4t. Kendall Scheiss, New Mexico, 9.80
4t.
Josh Stein, Stanford, 9.80
7. Jeff Kraft, Western Michigan, 9.775
8.
Danny Akerman, Temple, 9.75
Rings
1.
Blaine Wilson, Ohio, 9.90
2. Dave Frank, Temple, 9.85
3. Bryan Fox, Cal
Berkley, 9.825
4t. Kevin Schwartz, UMass, 9.80
4t. Tony Pansy, Penn
State, 9.80
4t. Richard Grace, Nebraska, 9.80
4t. Josh Stein, Stanford,
9.80
8t. Dave Eckert, Ohio, 9.775
8t. Kenzo Koshimura, BYU, 9.775
8t. Andrew Manson, Stanford,
9.775
Vault
1. Keith Wiley, Stanford, 9.75
2. Richard Grace,
Nebraska, 9.725
3. Brian Yee, Minnesota, 9.70
4t. Ian Bachrach, Stanford, 9.50
4t. Steve Marshall, Army,
9.50
4t. Colby VanCleve, Minnesota, 9.50
7t.
Josh Stein, Stanford, 9.45
7t. Neil Niemi, Ohio,
9.45
7t. Jeremy Killen, Oklahoma, 9.45
7t. Sebronzik
Wright, William and Mary, 9.45
7t. Ofri Porat, Syracuse, 9.45
7t. Rick Kieffer,
Nebraska, 9.45
Parallel Bars
1. Jay Thornton, Iowa, 9.80
2.
Tom Ellefson, Penn State, 9.75
3. Drew Durbin,
Ohio, 9.725
4t. Richard Grace, Nebraska, 9.70
4t. Tony Pansy, Penn
State, 9.70
4t. Blaz Puljic,
New Mexico, 9.70
7t. Jamie Ellis, Stanford, 9.65
7t. Dave Eckert, Ohio,
9.65
7t. Gary Thagard, New Mexico, 9.65
High
Bar
1. Rick Kieffer, Nebraska, 9.80
2. Jeremy
Killen, Oklahoma, 9.80
3. Blaz Puljic, New Mexico, 9.775
4t. Darren Elg, BYU, 9.75
4t. Carl Imhauser,
Temple, 9.750
6t. Jason Christie, Nebraska, 9.725
6t. Dubie Bader, Temple, 9.725
8t. Josh Stein, Stanford,
9.70
8t. Casey Bryan, Oklahoma, 9.70
8t. Aaron Basham, Oklahoma,
9.70
Men who qualified for more than one event final:
Five
(!)
----------
Josh Stein, Stanford
Four
----------
Richard
Grace, Nebraska
Three
----------
Jeremy Killen, Oklahoma
Blaz Puljic, New Mexico
Two
----------
Tony
Pansy, Penn State
Rick Kieffer, Nebraska
Keith
Wiley, Stanford
Jay Thornton, Iowa
Drew Durbin, Ohio
Dave Eckert,
Ohio
Darren Elg, BYU
Brian Yee,
Minnesota
Notable notes:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nebraska,
despite compiling the highest team total, did not win any
event!
Weird. But they looked
awesome. They hit their first
routine
and then never looked back. Stanford was equally outstanding in
overall gymnastic quality -- in fact probably more so as I
think
Stanford leads the collegiate ranks for innovative routines --
but
they had nine falls this night.
The
highest score of the meet was 9.90, achieved by Darren Elg
on
floor, Blaine Wilson on rings, and Drew Durbin
on pommels.
Jason Christie of Nebraska has got a really pretty
handstand.
Most individual qualifiers to Nationals: six -- both Cal
Berkeley and
New Mexico. Next
was Temple with five.
Lots of teams with red on today: Nebraska,
Stanford, Oklahoma, Ohio,
New Mexico, Temple.
My biggest
"WOW" of the competition was Keith Wiley of Stanford on
vault. As one
person put it, that vault (I think a Kas, not
sure)
dropped right out of the sky. It was just GORGEOUS. I think Keith
Wiley was my favorite
gymnast there tonight -- a real eye catcher.
Sorry, I didn't catch
much of the meet because I was a volunteer
during
the competition. I will be able to
see more tomorrow and can
hopefully write down
some more detailed impressions and some of those
cool
combinations.
Rachele
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:32:47
-0700
From: ***@SEATTLEU.EDU
Subject:
Re: new subscriber
I have seen a video of some soviet gymnast from
about three years ago
working triple backs off the
unevens.
It was pretty cool to see a woman
do it ,
but I tell you it was pretty nasty looking. These girls had very
nasty looking giants (I suppose you have to do this sort of
giant to build
the speed) and the cowboy position
to the absolute maximum.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:43:14
MET
From: ***@SEPA.TUDELFT.NL
Subject:
Re: new subscriber
Re to triple back on Floor
Olga Chudina can do a perfect triple back on floor. (she even did
it in
competition, but not in international
meets)
Many of the girls in the former Soviet Union do triples in
training.
Laschenova was one of them.
But
no one managed to do one like Chudina's
Chantal
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 04:11:33
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Fwd: Re: Negativity
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: Re: Negativity
Date: 95-04-21 04:09:41 EDT
GYMN
is hardly a free-for-all, and our hosts make sure that anyone who
goes too far beyond the bounds of decency is reigned
in.
However, I have said it before and I will say it again. Any
performer
who chooses to place themselves or their
work in the public eye should
be prepared for some
criticism, constructive and otherwise. That's the
nature
of the beast. And as to withholding such criticism from
children,
phoey. I believe in protecting children from a very
great
deal, but when they and their
parents/guardians decide that these
children are
going to step in front of a group of people and perform,
they
have crossed the line.
Apart from criticism that is purely slanderous,
or that which is based
solely on the race, creed,
color, religion, national origin, or sexual
preference
or the subject, I would say that this forum has leeway
enough
for everyone to make their opinions known.
For those who want a
sanitized, opinion-free place on the net to
discuss
gymnastics, the USAG provides such a forum. In my experience,
however (and Susan can attest to this) the criticism you
hear in this
forum at its worst is much milder
than what can be heard in the cheap
seats at any
major gymnastics meet. And, by the way, a darned sight
milder
than the nastiness I have heard coming from the mouths of some
parents of club-level gymnasts at meets AND workouts.
I
think the current tone on GYMN is just fine, and well within keeping
of the FAQ. (When in doubt, RTFM, right?) ;-)
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:25:14
+0100
From: ***@VNET.ATEA.BE
Subject:
...no subject...
Hi everybody,
My name is Erik and I'm
writing you from Belgium. At the
moment, my only
connection to the internet is an e-mail gateway at my
employer's.
Therefor I can't spend too much time writing e-mails. I'm
still working on a proper introduction of myself and on some
questions
for which I hope to find the answers
through the GYMN-list. Expect to
read them one of
these days.
The reason I'm already sending this mail is because I read
something
on another list (Edupage)
which might be of interest to lots of you:
the
Atlanta Olympics have a WWW-page !
Unfortunately I'm not able to access it
myself. If anyone can and if
he or she finds
something of interest for the other GYMNers, I
think
it would be nice to report about it on
GYMN.
I included the original message hereunder:
*** included message ***
>
>
***************************************************************
> Edupage, a summary of news items on information technology,
is provided
> three times each week as a
service by Educom -- a Washington, D.C.-based
>
consortium of leading colleges and universities
seeking to transform
> education through the
use of information technology.
>
***************************************************************
..
*** other subjects removed
***
..
> OLYMPICS GET A WEB PAGE
>
The new WWW page <http://www.atlanta.olympic.org> contains "The
Guide to
> the 1996 Olympic Games." (Atlanta Journal-Constitution 4/11/95
D1)
..
*** other
subjects removed ***
..
*** end
included message ***
See you on GYMN,
Erik.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:38:44
+0100
From: ***@VNET.ATEA.BE
Subject:
Atlanta Olympics
I forgot to fill in the subject line on my previous
e-mail.
It should have read 'Atlanta Olympics'.
Sorry for the
inconvenience.
Erik.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:27:47
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
NCAA Nationals
Does anyone know when NCAA women's nationals will be televised,if at all?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:34:35
+0100
From: ***@PHARM.LON.AC.UK
Subject:
Re: new subscriber
I heard that Lashenova
trained it on floor, but never competed it (to my
knowledge). Knowing some of her double tucks, it was
probably high, but
cowboyed.
jason.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:26:30
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Re: SI slams rhythmic gymnastics
After several months of sitting back
watching Jim post messages and replies,
I finally have a good reason to
make a post!
First of all, I didn't know we had so many interested in
Rhythmic Gymnastics
here. After working as a dance coach in an
artistic club, our owner decieded
to add a Rhythmic program. I thought the idea was great, the
program was
given to me to run, because of my
intense dance background as well as 16
years of
gymnastics experience.
After having the program running for six
months, I had 6 students.
The bad part of all of this is the other coachs', the parents, and the
artistic
girls in the gym. Our head coach constently
"picks" on the
rhythmic girls. Telling
them how easy Rhythmic is, and how the are
taking
the easy way out. The parents have told me that my girls have
to much fun and not enough work. One parent even asked when
I was
going to put up the "toys" and
teach my girls something! My reply was
"I will put away the balls,
ribbons and hoops when artistic gives up
the beam,
vault and bars! After all weren't they just "toys"!.
" And
the other gymnasts in the club, one
level 8 artistic inpaticual, loves
to pick on the rhythmic group. I had one coach, the beginners coach
make the foll owing statement, "Lets give all the really
"big' girls
to rhythmic, they don't do
anything really." The girl
that she was
referring to was a 7 year old that
has several medical problems and is
overweight
because of them. I love kids and would take her in my class
anytime, but the remark upset the parents of the child
greatly. Her
mother put her in the beginning class
on the advise oh her doctor to
help her with her
weight control.
Now the moral of the above story.
All but one of my girls have quit rhythmic.
The
only one to stay with it, was my daughter. For a
while, I thought that
our program could make it.
The girls were tough, telling the artistic girls "
If Rhythmic were
easy, the would call it Artistic".
So
you see the problem is wide spread. Not only do Rhythmic gymasts
and
coachs, have to deal
with people like SI, we also have the same problems in
the
gym.
Let me add on more thing, when I started
coaching dance, I ran into much of
the same
problems. Some parents wanted classicial ballet, others wanted
"gymnastics dance". And ballet was often low rated. The
gymnasts would
complain constantly in my classes
about how the hated dance and saw no reason
for
it.
While I know that this type of problem does not happen in all the
gyms, it
has been enough to make me stop coaching
anyone except my daughter. The
moral of the story is that gymnastics and sports in general
are cut throat.
They don't like change and they don't like any other
sport.
I believe that people have the right to whatever sport they
choose and should
not be put down because of it. I
love artistic gymnastics as well as rhythmic
gymnastics,
but I would love to dance and play football too!
My .02 worth,
thanks for reading or deleting! :)
Lori
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:41:45
-0400
From: ***@ZEUS.TOWSON.EDU
Subject:
Mo Huilan
I
read the bio on Mo that was posted a couple of days ago. I was
wondering
if anyone had anymore interesting tidbits to add about her. I
saw her
at Brisbane last spring, and she is incrediable. Her Gaylord on
the
uneven bars is simply a majestical thing to see in
person. She is
poised to be a factor in Atlanta.
The Peach has
always been my favorite fruit.
Atlanta is nearing!
THE MIKESTER
BEE
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:06:32
-0500
From: ***@SUVAX1.STETSON.EDU
Subject:
Ann Marie's post
I am generally one of the lurkers and wanted to
respond to Ann Marie's
comments about the
"trashing" of gymnasts. I
also believe that their
is a fine line between
constructive criticism and personal attacks. I
think
that in some cases, the critiques on this forum have crossed
that line. The
gymnasts may not be perfect, but they are still good
enough
to be some of the best in the world (Hillary Grivich
included).
As a college professor, I know all about criticizing other people's
work and this
criticism is an important part of acadmics as is it
an
important part of athletics. We must continually try to improve
the
sport.
Where would women's gymnastics in the US be without coaches
and others constantly criticizing and trying to make our
athletes
better.
I have particularly
noticed some strong undercurrents in the posts
about
Zmeskal and Miller. Obviously, there are a number of people
who
like Kim or SHannon
(both gymnastically and personally), but I'm not
sure
there are many who really like both.
Both are world caliber
athletes. They may have peaked at different times,
but both are
champions. They did what worked best for them. I sometimes wonder if
some of the comments on GYMN reflect more of a dislike for
the
athlete's coach rather than the athlete
herself. I must admit myself
that it look a long time for me to warm up to Shannon Miller
as a
gymnast because I don't care very much for Nunno. Anyway,
that's my
two cents. I hope that we can continue to focus
more of the gymnasts'
skills and abilities rather
than on their personalities. I
agree that
no world class athlete should be
shielded from criticism simply
because of their
age. However, I also know that we
can't necessarily
fault some of these girls for
character flaws or occassional
immaturity--after
all, they are teenagers.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:06:56
PDT
From: ***@ROYALDIGITAL.COM
Subject:
Re: Negativity
> That's just my opinion. What do the rest of you think? I'd especially love
> to hear from some of the "lurkers"!
>
>
Ann Marie
>
OK, I guess you could call me a lurker. I have been watching this
list for a few weeks and sometimes I like it and sometimes I
think
that people are so caught up in the ideal of
perfection that they
forget that each gymnast (and
everyone else) is a whole person.
We
cannot separate the person out of the
routines.
Now, for who I am and why I am here. I have two daughters in
gymnastics. They
are 1. 10 and competing Level 5 and 2. almost 7,
working Level 4 and the strongest kid I have personally ever
seen (if
she can learn some grace she's going
places). I have spent the last
5
years in the gym watching while mine were in
class - only in the last
1 1/2 years have I been able to leave while the
younger one practiced.
I have seen a lot of girls at different levels work
individual skills
and each one approaches it in a
different way and with a different
level of drive
and determination.
My older daughter keeps me focused on the
importance of the whole
person. She has an attitude that she will do her
best, hopefully
improving (which she does,
although slower than her teammates) and if
she
does better, great. If she doesn't,
she will next time. No big
deal. But don't
you dare even mention the word *quit* - she'll be all
over
you. As a very competitive person
myself (although athletics is
not my arena), this
laid-back attitude was very new and something I
had
to think about. I am very proud to
have a daughter who is so well
grounded at 10
years old. Now, if it only lasts
into those teen
years....
Diane
Gymn Mom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:19:50
PDT
From: ***@MCM.COM
Subject:
Re: NCAA Men's Champs: Team prelims -- AA finals
Thank you Rachele for the very prompt report of the results. I just
wanted
to note that the top two teams are from the West. I remember
after
regionals, someone noted that if the top six scores were looked
at, then Temple would have gone. This is yet another example of
judging bias.
Apparently the judges is some areas boost scores up,
whether knowingly or not. If the selection were to be
completely
fair, I believe four or even five teams
from the west deserved to go.
And I predict that the team finals will just
be a showdown between the
two west teams. And just like when nationals were in New
Mexico, I
believe Stanford will win it all with
more outstanding gymnastics.
Josh
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:30:35
-0400
From: ***@ACS.BU.EDU
Subject:
Re: new subscriber
Hi thanks for the info!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:32:01
-0400
From: ***@ACS.BU.EDU
Subject:
Re: new subscriber
Yeah, I can imagine, but just to be ABLE to do it
is an accomplishment
itself!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:34:29
-0400
From: ***@ACS.BU.EDU
Subject:
Re: new subscriber
Thanks. That's really interesting!! I would love to see someone do it
in
a meet, but that would require quite a lot of
energy, I'm sure. What is
it worth?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:18:20
+0200
From: ***@MAIL.LSS.CO.ZA
Subject:
Re: Longer FX routines
Please don't let anyone make the floor routines
longer!
I get exhausted doing the normal length routine!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:24:10
+0200
From: ***@MAIL.LSS.CO.ZA
Subject:
Junior Compulsaries
Could someone please
tell me what the junior compulsary routines are like
in
the U.S.A and rest of the world. Are they the
same as in South Africa? Here
they almost the same
as the senior routines but a little shorter and easier.
e.g Bar-kip, handstand half turn, clear circle
handstand, kip, squat on,
long kip, handstand,
clear circle handstand, back straddle handstand,
kip,
squat on, long kip, handstand, giant, shoot front.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:04:10
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
SI Article
I haven't read the SI article, but was wondering--were the authors comments
made in an
article or an editorial? Either
way, they're horrible, but if it
was part of an
article, I'm shocked his editor let it go to print! Was this
the
same guy who said that the 1992 Women's Olympic team was going to
celebrate their bronze medal by eating a cornflake? I hope some of you will
write to SI and make your feelings known! Good luck! I don't know much
about
rythmic because it's rarely covered, but I remember
loving the ribbon
event when I was a kid (maybe at
the '84 Games?). It hardly takes a
genius
to realize it's a difficult SPORT!
Ann
Marie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:10:18 -0400
From: ***@ZEUS.TOWSON.EDU
Subject:
Rhythmic Gymnastics
I
myself am a big fan of artistic gymnastics, but I enjoy RSG too.
I have attented a couple RSG meets over the years, but there hard
to find
aout about. The problem with RSG is that it has
never had a Mary Lou
Retton. Thus, in the United States it is not
considered a big deal.
A couple of years ago, I visted a friend
of mine in Spain. She
is a dancer, and had done some rhythmic gymnastics. To my surprise, the
rhythmic meet was packed, and everyone loved it. After it was over, she
explained to me that to many people in Spain rhythmic
gymnastics is as big
of a deal as football
(soccer). I couldn't believe this
until I visted a
gymnastics
school. The rhythmic program was
the same size as the
artistic program, and it was
the rhythmic program that had all the
excitement.
My
advice to all you rhythmic fans out there is to have hope.
Maybe Tamara
Levinson or Jessica Davis or some unknown will have the meet
of their lives at Atlanta. If this person gets anywhere near the
notice
that Mary Lou got in 84, RSG could get some
respect.
I believe Rodney Dangerfield would understand rhythmic's plight
THE MIKESTER BEE
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:15:54
-0400
From: ***@ZEUS.TOWSON.EDU
Subject:
Olympic Specials
I
just thought I would mention this just in case anyone missed
it in the USA TODAY. It was reported on Thursday that Mary Lou
Retton
and Pat O'Brien
of CBS Sports and late night host of Lillehammer 94
fame
will host a series of specials on ESPN.
They will deal with
different olympic topics as a lead up to the 96 games in
Atlanta.
Bye for now!
MIKESTER BEE
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:59:03
-0700
From: ***@VPL.VANCOUVER.BC.CA
Subject:
Re: SI slams R-mics (suck eggs SI)
I've
always felt that the real reason many people dismiss rhythmic
gymnastics and synchronized swimming is that they are the
only two
Olympic events done solely by women. Sexism, pure and
simple.
SI needs to wake up to the fact that just because a
sport isn't that
well-known in the U.S. doesn't
mean that it isn't popular elsewhere.
Rhythmic is huge in Europe. I saw the 1994 World Championships on TV
and
the arena was jammed for the event
finals. If SI wants to ignore
this
sport, that's their loss.
Bring on
more rhythmic!
Lorraine
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:01:35
PDT
From: ***@GEOWORKS.COM
Subject:
Negativity
> That's just my opinion. What do the rest of you think? I'd especially love
> to hear from some of the "lurkers"!
I
think some of the criticism lately has been rude. I don't mind
someone
making a technical or sometimes even personal criticism if it is
done in a tasteful way.
For instance:
"I think that that Dawes needs to keep her legs together on her
flipflops, and find it suprising that a.) her coach
hasn't corrected this
and b.) judges
don't seem to notice"
or
"I think Sherbo displayed a really bad
attitude at the meet in ..."
This
has quite different tone than some of the stuff lately.
As
to the latest post about Hilary (I've never even seen her do
gymnastics), I really don't think there was much in the way
of gymnastic
criticism. It seemed to boil down to a long and
sarcastic way of saying
"Hilary Sucks" (sounds similar to things
people said about the men's team
awhile
ago...). To say that a gymnast who
most likely works out 6 hours a
day is
"clever" because they are "content with mediocrity" doesn't
really
make any sort of logical sense (i.e. if she
was on TV, clearly many coaches
and judges
disagree with the author, and as I've not seen her gymnatics
I'll
have to trust their informed oppinion) and is just a
personal attack.
I
guess there isn't really anything in the GYMN rules that says you
can't be rude in general, although there is a paragraph
about being rude to
a person, generally known as
flaming:
"In order to keep the list friendly, we ask that all members
remember to be respectful of others' points of view. It is, of
course,
alright to disagree with a person's opinion, but attacking
them for holding it will be considered inappropriate in this
forum.
Similarly, we hope to be able to keep the "signal-to-noise"
ratio
high, so please avoid all manner of
"flaming"."
I
would guess the post about Hilary would fail the above
paragraph's
guidlines for three reasons. It certainly wasn't respectful,
it was attacking her for a presumed oppinion
(i.e. "content with
mediocrity", which I
doubt she is), and as far as "signal-to-noise" I would
guess that knowing about the author's dislike of Hilary
didn't do much
other than offend a bunch of
us.
I'm
pretty sure the above paragraph from the Gymn
"Updated
Introductory Letter" was put there to keep people from
making rude posts,
and hope people will avoid them
in the future.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:43:54
-0400
From: ***@ZEUS.TOWSON.EDU
Subject:
Re: Negativity/Hillary Grivich
I
just had to put my two cents in on this.
It is my belief that
comments regarding are
justified because of the level of gymnastics.
Hillary was performing with
the best of her sport. Since there
is at the
moment no real professional gymnasts,
the international amateurs are the
best. These athletes are teenagers but are
mature, disciplined, and know
how to take peoples
cuts. I am sure that Bela Karolyi said worse
things
to her during workouts or meets than what
was said here.
I
agree that these athletes put out much time and effort. These
young
ladies I think have never been given enough credit for the mind and
body they have because of their gymnastics. People their age (football
players included) could only dream for what international
gymnasts have.
My
basic point is that Hillary Grivich is like a
basketball
player who is hardly in the starting
five, or a baseball player who is an
utility
infielder. She has reached a level
that few can only dream of,
but she is no Kim Zmeskal, Shannon Miller, Tatiana Gutsu,
Lavinia
Milosivich, or anyone else of this calibar. This is not a cut on her as
a human being, it is just the way it is. Just as the sometime starting
basketball or player are not Michael Jordan or Cal Ripken,
she is not
as good as the people I mentioned
before.
Two final points on this subject. Don't feel bad for Hillary,
I'm sure
their are many Level 10 coaches that would to have a Hillary
Grivich. That
is the whole point, she is better than many gymnasts
in
the world but not the top of the international
scene.
This
is it I promise! I just want to add
that I am in no way
condoning the use of this
forum by people just to make insults of
gymnasts
they don't like. This should defenitely be pointed out when
someone
goes overboard, but I don't think it's proper to censor peoples'
opinions espically when dealing
with a person who competes a level where
critisim is part of the total package.
Smile
it's FRIDAY!
THE MIKESTER BEE
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:36:44
-0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject:
Re: Zmeskal's vaults
> trend
coming. BTW: Is a Piked Cuervo
a 10.0 vault? I know that Khorkina's
> derivative (with the RO half to the horse is) but what about
traditional
> approach. Makes no sense when the
Layout Tsuk full (or Kasamatsu,
depending
> on how you twist) is a 9.9. Who
makes up these codes?
A piked Cuervo is a 9.9 and a layout Tsuk
full is a 9.8, not 9.9.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:53:20
-0700
From: ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject:
Re: NCAA Men's Champs: Team prelims -- AA finals
>
> Thank
you Rachele for the very prompt report of the
results.
> I just wanted to note that the top two teams are from the
West.
> I remember after regionals, someone noted that if the top six
scores
> were looked at, then Temple would have
gone. This is yet another
> example of judging bias. Apparently the judges is some areas
>
boost scores up, whether knowingly or not. If the selection were to be
> completely fair, I believe four or even five teams from the
west deserved
> to go. And I predict that the team finals will
just be a showdown between
> the two west
teams. And just like when nationals
were in New Mexico,
> I believe Stanford will win it all with more
outstanding gymnastics.
>
> Josh
Dave Jusczyk (Did I FINNALY get the spelling right
?)
Called me this morning with the prelim results.
We noted how
last year Nebraska won on their home turf.
This year with (T)OSU out of the running, its now an even playing
field.
(Regents of the university are really miffed that we keep leaving
the word
"THE" out of their university's name.
They
much prefer that we call it THE Ohio State University.
I
just got backhanded by them last week for calling them OSU again.
Hence
I now call it (T)OSU.....)
Was Nebraska
REALLY the best last year ? (Gimmie
a &^%$# break !)
And we notice how
Oklahoma won the regional and then fizzled.
(Can you say "GIFT POINTS" ? SURE ! SURE ! I KNEW ya' COULD !)
Well the
meat and potatoes are tonight, wish I could be there but I got
downed servers and mangled optical fibres.
Gonna be a LOOONNNNGGGG weekend !
ACK!
THPFT !
-texx
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:57:33
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
triple back off unevens
Svetlana Kozlova (USSR-Russia) did the triple back (successfully at
'89
Moscow Stars) and current Russian Alexandra Sorokina
also does it. It is not
in the code but I'm sure it would be evaluated as an
E!!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:00:09
-0400
From: ***@PRISM.GATECH.EDU
Subject:
Improving Floor.
Yes, the increased time limit would allow people to
throw six or
seven major passes, so that is a
problem, unless it was stopped by doing the
following:
Having two sets of scores on Floor. One for the tumbling and
one for the artistic components. This could be done with two
sets of
judges. One set would grade according to
content of tumbling elements and
required elements
in the current code. Another would grade on the overall
presentation
of the elements and the routine. This is similar to the
figure
skating rules with grade on "technical" and "artistic"
composition.
Alternatively, I suggest that the judges "GET
TOUCH" on form errors.
Alot of gymnasts have
form errors while executing big skills but do
not
get big deductions. A "cowboy" on a double tuck
or a tucked full-in is
still a form error, and alot of gymnasts do this and the ones with the
full-ins don't seem to get the stronger deduction. Why is
this? Are
the judges factoring the difficultly of
the skill and if a skill is
very difficult should
one allow the gymnast to have form errors to
execute
it? I don't think so. I've seen alot of form
errors
by gymnasts (particularly on beam and bar
dismounts) as they struggle
to perform more
difficult skills to get the E ratings. I wish that the CODE
would say If you cowboy, you cowboy-end of dicussion. If you don't
believe
me, take alook at alot of
the double backs and double
layouts off of beam
and bars, respectively, and ask yourself.
I'm done here....Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:33:37
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Trivia Answers #28 - Beam and PH
Trivia answer time!!!
********************
Topic: Balance Beam & Pommel Horse
Thanks
for questions goes to:
#1, 5 - Cole
#2 - Adam
#3 - Rachele
#4, 6, 8 - Nancy
#7 - Brett
#9 -
Frances
#10 - Mara
1. At the Montreal Olympic games, Olga Korbut won her only individual medal
on
beam. What was her final placement
and which two gymnasts stood on the
podium with
her?
Olga won the silver medal.
Nadia Comaneci was first and Teodora Ungureanu
won the bronze.
2.
How many circles (including flairs and loops) did Pi Gil Su (North Korea)
use in his 1992 World Championship and Olympic winning
routines?
57
3. Which Soviet woman became known for mounting
beam with flairs?
Svetlana Baitova,
1987
4. Name the Soviet from the '80's who won this event at Worlds
every time he
made the team?
Valentin Mogilny member of the
'85 and '89 Soviet World teams and '85 and '89
PH World Champ
5.
Who/when was the first American to medal on beam at a World Championship?
What
color medal?
Cathy Rigby, silver, Ljubjana,
1970
6. Three men from three countries tied for the World title in
'92, 2 of them
went on to tie for the Olympic
title and then in '93 only one was left to
claim
the title. Name them.
'92
Worlds - Li Jing (CHN), Vitali Scherbo
(BLR), & Pae Gil Saue
(PRK); '92
Olympics - Scherbo and Gil Saue; '93 Worlds - Gil Saue
7.
At Montreal in 1985, this gymnast dismounted beam with a piked
tsukahara.
Camelia
Voinea
8. In '83 there was a protest to
raise the eventual World PH's Champion
optional
score. Who was the athlete, what was the original
score, and what
was it raised to?
Dmitri Bilozerchev 9.95 to 10.0 In finals
he, and four others, scored 10.0.
If the protest had not been honored and
the optional score not raised it
would have
resulted in a 3 way tie for first with Guczoghy (HUN)
and Li
Xiaping (CHN).
9. Which Sov beam
specialist and innovator - Sov team member at '76
Olympics
- married sports acrobat Evgey Makhalichev and competed
with him as a mixed
pair. (She also performed beam
at exhibitions as late as '87.)
Svetlana Grozdova.
10. Which Chinese gymnast finished out
of the medal at World Championships
twice in a row
after bobbling her dismount?
Yang Bo, 1989 & 1991
------------------------------
End
of GYMN-L Digest - 20 Apr 1995 to 21 Apr 1995 - Special issue
*****************************************************************