gymn Digest Tue, 27 Sep 94 Volume 3 : Issue 22

Today's Topics:
"Olympic Fever" ( MAIL WARNING)
Borden to GA? (4 msgs)
British Nationals EF Winners
Chelle Stack
Christy Henrich video
Comebacks was gymn Digest V1 #21
Doni Thompson and Worlds (2 msgs)
Former USAG public relations man moves to the UPI
gymn Digest V1 #21 (3 msgs)
gymn gif's
Juniors (was Re: Doni Thompson and Worlds)
Leonard Isaacs??
Need Crazy Trivia Questions!
vaulting & subconsious judging

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 14:11:20 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: "Olympic Fever" ( MAIL WARNING)

Well since I've received 13 messages asking to see the story I guess it's
worthwhile to post chapter by chapter (there are 7) to the list.

I WILL TITLE THE MESSAGES BY NAME ("Olympic Fever") & CHAPTER NUMBER SO IF
YOU DON'T WANT TO BOTHER READING THE STORY YO CAN EASILY SKIP THE MESSAGES

You guys were all dying for a mail bombardment anyway ... right? :-)

Susan

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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 22:25:43 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Borden to GA?

>In our local paper today (Athens, GA), it was reported that Amanda Borden
has made a verbal commitment to the University of Georgia.

As a general question, how much is a verbal commitment worth?

Mara

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Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 09:53:08 EDT
From: ***@eos.ncsu.edu
Subject: Borden to GA?

> >In our local paper today (Athens, GA), it was reported that Amanda Borden
> has made a verbal commitment to the University of Georgia.
>
> As a general question, how much is a verbal commitment worth?
>
> Mara

It's not TOTALLY binding, you just (more or less) give your word that
that is where you want to go to school. Once you sign a letter of
intent, though, you are (more or less) bound to go there. Although, I
have heard of some basketball players that have changed their minds
after they signed their letter of intent, and asked to go to another
school. But that situation is rare.

--Brent

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Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 11:53:07 PDT
From: ***@geoworks.com
Subject: Borden to GA?

> As a general question, how much is a verbal commitment worth?

As far as I can tell (my girl friend just started law school and is
studying contracts, so this is slightly second hand, but should be
accurate), a verbal contract (a verbal commitment should qualify, if the
school acknowledged the commitment) is just as valid as a paper one.
The reason it commonly isn't thought to be valid is because proof
is quite easy when you can show a signed piece of paper, but proof of a
verbal contract just boils down to one person's word against another unless
you have recorded it in some identifyable way.

Dave

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Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 12:12:25 PDT
From: ***@sol.metaware.com
Subject: Borden to GA?

> As far as I can tell (my girl friend just started law school and is
> studying contracts, so this is slightly second hand, but should be
> accurate), a verbal contract (a verbal commitment should qualify, if the
> school acknowledged the commitment) is just as valid as a paper one.

Okay, this brings up the question:

Why have a verbal committment and not just sign the dotted line? (I know
very little about contracts!) If they both mean the same thing, then
this shouldn't be a problem.


--Robin

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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 11:56:18 BST
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: British Nationals EF Winners

British National Championships 1994

Event Finals Gold Medal Winners
===============================

Mens
====

Floor Exercise : Craig Heap 9.250
Pommel Horse : Lee McDermott 9.150
Rings : Lee McDermott 9.600
Vault : A. Minshall 8.925
Parallel bars : Lee McDermott 9.200
Craig Heap 9.200
High Bar : Lee McDermott 9.300

Womens
======

Vault : Sonia Lawrence 9.343
Ana-Liese Acklam 9.343
Uneven Bars : Zita Lusack 9.312
Beam : Ana-Liese Acklam 9.150
Floor Exercise : Annika Reeder 9.612


In newspaper "Daily Telegraph" today there's a colour photo (21cm by 16cm) of
Zita Lusack on the beam.

Sherwin

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Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 08:27:10 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Chelle Stack

I recently came across an unfinished manuscript about Chelle Stack's life in
gymnastics entitle "Olympic Fever" and thought that many on "Gymn" may be
interested. I found it publically available online ("CompuServe") and so am
assuming that it's ok to discuss it here. I am including the author's - many
of you may know of him - introduction to further explain the premise.

It's about 25 pages long and I found it fairly interesting. It's not a
"happy" type story but one we are all too familiar with by now. If anyone is
interested in the complete (well complete "uncomplete" version) manuscript it
can be either found on "CompuServe" (in the "other sports" library) or I can
send it to you via e-mail. If you happen to be on AOL (even if that's not
your regular e-mail site) that would be much easier for me to do as the
e-mail system is not the greatest limiting you to 32K messages (this is about
100K) and you can't transfer files over the internet (only to other AOL
members). I suppose I could post it in chapters to "Gymn" but that would
create a lot of mail and I'm not really sure of everyone's level of interest
... blah, blah, blah. Well anyway, let me know.

-Susan


>>THE FOLLOWING WAS TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM THE MANUSCRIPT<<<

Olympic Fever
---------------------------
by Keith McCaffety
as told to him by Carrol Stack
--------------------------------------------

INTRODUCTION:

This incomplete book was started in 1991 at the request of Carrol Stack, the
mother of 1988 Olympic gymnast Chelle Stack. I had been publishing the Flying
Squirrels Gymnastics newsletter for more than a year at that point, and
Carrol and I had become friends. We have since parted on less than friendly
terms, so the book will unfortunately never be finished. However, the
material is important and should be seen. I hope all who read it learn from
it.

- Keith McCaffety

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 23:19:06 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Christy Henrich video

I just saw a very brief news clip on TV that Christy Henrich's fiance (I
forget his name.) has developed a video about Christy and her anorexia. I
believe it is to that song he wrote. They showed a clip of the video. Part of
it was Christy doing gymnastics. Part of it was of her and her fiance in the
recording studio. It said the video was going to be distributed, but I don't
know where. The fiance said he hoped it would help people to realize the
dangers of the disease.

LeeAnn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 11:52:00 BST
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: Comebacks was gymn Digest V1 #21

Ben added
>You said it. The word "pathetic" also comes to mind. Am I being too harsh?
>What do others think of all these attempted come backs lately?

Theres nothing wrong with a comeback as long as it is just that a comeback
to the sport and not some way of cheaply selling the sport or themselves
so as to make a quick buck before disappearing again.

Thats not good for the image of the sport because you can bet your life the
media will concentrate on the performances of the people coming back and
wrongly IMO use it as a way of ascertaining the level of competiveness,
etc etc of the sport.

Clive

ITFC -Were not boring anymore.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 13:20:30 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Doni Thompson and Worlds

The Chicago Tribune Online on America Online has an interview with Doni
Thompson. If anyone wants me to e-mail it to them, let me know. I know it's
against the rules to post the whole thing here.

I do have a question, though. Part of the article says,"Next on her to-do
list are her Olympic routines. "I need harder tumbling runs, another release
move on the bars (letting go of the bar, then catching it again) and more
moves on the beam."
She is getting more experience competing, too. Doni got second in the
junior division at the August nationals and plans to compete as a junior at
the World Championships in November (rules there say you have to be 15 before
competing as a senior)."

How is it that she'd compete as a junior at the Worlds? Is there a separate
competition for juniors?

LeeAnn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:43:12 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Doni Thompson and Worlds

> The Chicago Tribune Online on America Online has an interview with Doni
> Thompson. If anyone wants me to e-mail it to them, let me know. I know it's
> against the rules to post the whole thing here.
>
> I do have a question, though. Part of the article says,"Next on her to-do
> list are her Olympic routines. "I need harder tumbling runs, another release
> move on the bars (letting go of the bar, then catching it again) and more
> moves on the beam."
> She is getting more experience competing, too. Doni got second in the
> junior division at the August nationals and plans to compete as a junior at
> the World Championships in November (rules there say you have to be 15 before
> competing as a senior)."
>
> How is it that she'd compete as a junior at the Worlds? Is there a separate
> competition for juniors?
>
> LeeAnn

No... I'm not sure what this newspaper is talking about. My
question is, is there an age limit on junior competitors? I had thought
the division between sr/jr on the national level was only about age, but
since J. Thompson moved up to senior at only 13, I guess it's just what you
attempt. Could someone be 47 and be on the Junior National team, and
likewise, could a six year old be on the Senior National team? Are there
any juniors eligible for worlds?

Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 02:13:03 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Former USAG public relations man moves to the UPI

>From the _Indianapolis Star_ "Sports Talk" (23 September '94)

"Greg Seiter, former public relations manager for USA Gymnastics, today was
named sports information director at IUPUI."

-posted by Susan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 00:52:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: gymn Digest V1 #21

>The gymnast has the right to be judged on what they do. To this day I see no
>reason for there to be a deduction for performing a vault other than the
>vault flashed.

Try reading the code of points for Women's Gymnastics. There you will find
a RULE .....

>I like to know what the vault is before the vaulter actualy
>goes as much as the next person however I am competant enough to recognize
>what I see and judge what I see (although some coaches might not agree with
>me!!)

I don't think competancy is the question here unless it is the competancy of
the gymnast to perform the vault designated.

>There is NO deduction in the Mens code for performing a vault other
>than that flashed.

The Men's Code also requires the athlete to compete pommel horse in the All
Around. What is your point here? We are talking about Women's Gymnastics here
aren't we? I might also add that IMHO the Women are technically better
vaulters as a group then the Men! Men's vaulting is generally a pretty
sloppy event. And before you flame, I was a vaulting specialist in College,
went to NCAA's as a vaulter, I think I know that of which I speak.

>How a bout a Yurchenko triple twist flashed and then the gymnast only does a
>Yurchenko double twist and a BEAUTIFUL double twist?

Deduct for WRONG vault and then judge (suprise!) What you see! Assuming the
judge is "competant" enough to do that.

>This is the same thing as I said before- the gymnast has the right to be
>judged on what was done not what the judge thought was supposed to be done.

Incorrect. The gymnast has the obligation to follow the rules as written. We
are not talking rights here, just rules. This whole rave seems a little to
emotional and too content free. If you feel that the rules as written are
unfair or not a true test of the athletes ability, please tell me why?
Stating simply that the Men do it differently is not a very persuading
argument. I fully agree that gymnasts should not be penalized for altering
their routines on other apparatus, but the rules say differently on vault,
(and in my opinion it is a good rule. I think that without it, Women's Vault
will turn into the 'chuck it' festival that Men's has.) Women must declare
their vault and be judged on its performance. Men just have to land on their
feet. Which do you think is more challenging?

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 00:51:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: gymn Digest V1 #21

>Anyone have any results from the Junior Pan Am Games held last week in
>Monterey, Mexico? I know the meet took place but I have not seen any
>results!
>Thanks
>Bruce
Steve Whitlock just left a quick post on USA Online and said Men and Women
got Gold, 10 individual golds. He promised a full report soon.
Ben Corr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 00:51:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: gymn Digest V1 #21


>>From Dallas Morning News:
>>
>> Svetlana Boguinskaya arrived in Houston & is training w/ Karolyi. She is
>> trying to get her U.S. Citizenship papers approved.
>>
>> "If her papers don't come through in time for Atlanta, Karolyi might be
>> wearing an Olympic coaching credential from Belarus." !!?
>>
>>
> This is getting weirder by the minute.
You said it. The word "pathetic" also comes to mind. Am I being too harsh?
What do others think of all these attempted come backs lately?
Ben

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:59:59 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: gymn gif's

Does any body know of where any gymnastics gif sites are? Maybe gymn could
keep an up-to-date record like they do for magazines, the calandar and
such...

AMAHDA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 15:21:59 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Juniors (was Re: Doni Thompson and Worlds)

>How is it that she'd compete as a junior at the Worlds? Is there a separate
competition for juniors?<

Typical newspaper screw up ... it could be that's she's gong to some Jr.
Int'l comp somewhere or something but Doni is *definitely* not going to
worlds. First off she's too young (you must turn 15 within the year of the
World Championships).

That's also why she's not a Sr. (much to David's chagrin <g>). Her coach, Tom
Forester of CO Aerials, says - and I whole heartedly agree with him (on this
and most everything else) BTW - "Why compete as a 'Sr. International' at
Nationals when Internationally you're still considered a Jr?"

Juniors have easier competitve difficulty requirements which gives them a
chance to work on harder skills in the gym until they perfect them without
the pressure of throwing unproven skills in a meet. It also saves their young
bodies a little comp. wear and tear (eg. a double back instead of a full-in
at the end of a FX is acceptable in Jr.'s and in Sr's you must end with at
least a "D" move). Besides, it sure can't hurt the ole' confidence level to
dominate the Juniors for a bit before moving on to the more cuthroat Sr.
ranks.

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 10:00 CDT
From: ***@wigate.nic.wisc.edu
Subject: Leonard Isaacs??

Somebody mentioned Larissa Fontaine not being with Leonard anymore,
and somebody *else* asked what happened to Leonard, but I haven't
seen an answer to that one yet. Anybody know anything about this?

Thanks [ from a relatively new subscriber ],
Chip

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 22:26:04 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Need Crazy Trivia Questions!

Hi guys, time again for trivia.

The topic: Hair

Crew cuts, pigtails, ponytails, shag cuts, black hair, mohawks, bangs,
no-bangs, blonde hair, braids...

You name it, make it into a question.

Send'em to me, fast as you can!!!

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 12:14:47 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: vaulting & subconsious judging

I think if there was no deduction for flashing the wrong vault,
some gymnasts might purposely flash the number of an incredible vault
(Tsuk double back, handspring double front etc) that they had no intention
of attempting to "psych out" the judge and trick them into thinking that
they were an unbelievable vaulter, but just missed the block. Did anyone
ever see that article about warmups and gymn judging? It said that
studies have shown that gymnasts who do a flawless warmup are opt to be
scored higher on their actual routine than if they had mistakes in the
warmup. It was in a psychology journal or something... I'll try to find
it if anyone's interested. Well, the vaulting thing could happen.

Amanda

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End of gymn Digest
******************************