GYMN-L Digest - 27 Mar 1995 to 28 Mar 1995

There are 23 messages totalling 672 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. The Oscars (4)
2. EIGL - Individual Events
3. Big 10's
4. Australian Contraversy (2)
5. Oscars
6. Yang Bo Logo
7. Fwd: Peter Vidmar Invitational
8. Gutsu (2)
9. Miller's FX music (2)
10. This, that, and door #3 (3)
11. INTRODUCTION
12. Korbut dismount
13. Romania v Great Britian
14. Boy's J.O. Nationals
15. Fwd: I'M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:27:50 -0500
From: ***@EMERALD.TUFTS.EDU
Subject: The Oscars

Did anyone happen to catch the performance of the songs from the Lion
King? There was a girl doing some rhythmic gymnastics with the hoop
in the "Circle of Life" song! I just thought it was pretty cool and had
to be noted!
Does anyone know if she was a competitor?

Melissa

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 21:29:43 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: EIGL - Individual Events

Event Finals at EIGL's--

Floor
1. Kenny Sykes (Temple), 9.80
2. Ofri Porat (Syracuse), 9.75
3t Steve Marshall (Army), 9.70
3t Darin Gerlach (Temple), 9.70

Pommel Horse
1t Danny Akerman (Temple), 9.80
1t Mike Sivulka (Army), 9.80
3. Rich Kuenzler (Syracuse), 9.70

Rings
1t Kevin Schwartz (UMass), 9.80
1t Dave Frank (Temple), 9.80
3. Ofri Porat (Syracuse), 9.75

Vault
1. Ofri Porat (Syracuse), 9.55
2. Steve Marshall (Army), 9.45
3. Craig Holt (Syracuse), 9.35

Parallel Bars
1t Dave Frank (Temple), 9.60
1t Steve Marshall (Army), 9.60
3. Danny Akerman (Temple), 9.50

High Bar
1. Dubie Bader (Temple), 9.75
2. Carl Imhauser (Temple), 9.70
3t Rob Flannery (Navy), 9.55
3t Gabe Columbus (UMass), 9.55
3t Dave Frank (Temple), 9.55

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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 21:35:26 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Big 10's

Some word of mouth results from Big 10's (men's NCAA):

1. Minnesota 229.85
2. Iowa 229.30
3. OSU 228.xx
4. PSU 227.xx
5. Illinois
6. Michigan
7. Michigan State

AA:
1. Blaine WIlson (OSU)
2. Brian Yee (Minn)

Blaine was named Big-10 Gymnast of the Year; Fred Roethsliberger was
Coach of the Year.

Rachele

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 15:02:59 +1000
From: ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Australian Contraversy

Hi Folks,

For the past two weeks a huge argument has been going on in Australian
gymnastics and for the first time (at least in my memory) they're doing
it through the national media, which is hurting themselves since
gymnastics down here just doesn't have a profile, and this is creating a
very negative one.......

The argument is an old one 'to centralize or not to centralize'. The
Australian Gym Federation and national coach Ju Ping Tian want all the
girls together at the AIS (Australian Institute of Sport) in Canberra,
all year round to train for the 96 & 2000 Olympics (yep the developmental
squads for Sydney 2000 have already been chosen). Whereas the state
insitutes of sport want the girls to remain at home. The reason is
simple (if you ignore all the talk of keeping 'little girls' with their
families) it comes down to money - the state insitutes of sport lose
their funding if they lose their athletes.

The AGF and Ju Ping pose a reasonable argument - by having the top
gymnasts in the country together all year round, they'll push each other
to become better gymnasts and give Australia a better chance
internationally. Of course this is the system Ju Ping worked with in
China, and knows it produces results. After all, it makes sense that if
you have the best coaches and gymnasts all together in the same place
you're sure to see improvement. Deva is probably the most obvious (and
successful) example.

However, according to the state insitutes of sport, seperating kids as young
as 11 from their families for all but 2 weeks a year, can only be a
negative thing, as they'll simply give up the sport (this has happened to
many a talent already). Good point, especially when they back up their
point with the fact that the two best gymansts we've ever produced, Jo
Hughes (who BTW I'm told is out of retirement) and Jenny Smith are both
products of their state programs and continue to live and train at home.

A few officials were trying to compare the US club system with Australia,
saying that's the model we should follow, which is ridiculous since we
simply don't have the population to support an 'anything goes' system.

Last week, the parents of many of our top kids spoke to the National
minister of sport about the problem, since they believe kids who choose
to stay at home may miss out on funding, and possible team selection.

My thoughts on the topic are divided.......while I'd like to see the best
results possible for Australian gymnastics (which will give the sport a
higher profile and lead to more coverage etc), I've got to wonder at what
cost are we going to achieve that success?

Anyway, no matter what the merit of the argument, the insults being
tossed around by both sides are not in the best intrest of the sport.

Hope this hasn't bored you all, but I thought I'd let you know what was
going on in Australian gymnastics at the moment.

Michelle

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 00:31:37 -0500
From: ***@TIGER.HSC.EDU
Subject: Oscars

Pulp Fiction was ripped. Enough said.
(Though I did enjoy Forrest Gump.)

Julius

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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:31:51 -0800
From: ***@BETA.TRICITY.WSU.EDU
Subject: Re: The Oscars

> Did anyone happen to catch the performance of the songs from the Lion
> King? There was a girl doing some rhythmic gymnastics with the hoop
> in the "Circle of Life" song! I just thought it was pretty cool and had
> to be noted!
> Does anyone know if she was a competitor?
>
> Melissa

Yeah, I happen to catch that when I was flipping channels. She had some
nice split leaps that I noticed as well.

--Monica

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 05:54:06 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Yang Bo Logo

A close race -- but the winning photo for the logo pick is Yang Bo on
beam, picture D.

Rachele

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:49:51 -0500
From: ***@WINNIE.FIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Australian Contraversy

> My thoughts on the topic are divided.......while I'd like to see the best
> results possible for Australian gymnastics (which will give the sport a
> higher profile and lead to more coverage etc), I've got to wonder at what
> cost are we going to achieve that success?
The US has good teams, but that hasn't guaranteed good coverage.
Some of the latest e-mailing has been about poor coverage (TV- but I know
that newspapers aren't that good either). But the best of luck everyone
Down Under. Dealing with money makes situations VERY sticky.

Laura

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:58:01 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Fwd: Peter Vidmar Invitational

> 19-over
> 1.Mike Denucci UCLA 53.35
> 2.Mike Cornelius OSC Potttsdan(germany) 53.25
> 3.David St Pierre Broadway Gymn. 52.90
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He's *still* competing? Anyone know if he's just doing it for fun or if
he's seriously competing and what else he's doing? Just curious...
Also, whatever became of JD Reive and Zachary Lee?


:)
Adriana

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:59:29 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: The Oscars

> Did anyone happen to catch the performance of the songs from the Lion
> King? There was a girl doing some rhythmic gymnastics with the hoop
> in the "Circle of Life" song! I just thought it was pretty cool and had
> to be noted!
> Does anyone know if she was a competitor?

I noticed her the second she started doing the leaps where you do a turn
into the leap and do a few in a row, whatever they're called. I'd bet
anything she competes, or used to. Anyone know who she was? I tried to
get a good look at her face, but it was hard. I was thinking maybe of
Michelle Berube, but I didn't think the body type was right.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:02:37 -0500
From: ***@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU
Subject: Re: Gutsu

> On Mon, 27 Mar 1995, Sandy - wrote:
>
> > I just found out that Tatiana Gutsu was in Indianapolis. I was told that
she
> > was going back to Russia? Does anyone know what's she doing?
>
> I'd read that she was going to stay in the US nad compete in professional
> meets. IF she were to compete on the amateur level, she said she'd never
> compete for Ukraine.
>
> Anyone else with imput?
>
> Laura

When she said professional meets, did she mean stuff like Reese's?
How about Cirque de Soleil? Now that would be interesting.

-Alex

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:02:45 -0400
From: ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Miller's FX music

I've been trying to find out what piece(s) were used in Shannon Miller's
floor routine since mid-1992, and if she's using new music now.

On a similar note [pun intended], who usually determines what music is used
in a floor routine? I've seen what I consider pretty mismatched
choreography and music.

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:01:34 -0800
From: ***@VPL.VANCOUVER.BC.CA
Subject: Re: This, that, and door #3

. All
> the skills starting from one's feet on UB were also removed (like the
> famous Korbut, and also Rhonda Faehn's double full dismount). Of course,
> the ugliest of them all -- standing on the lb to reach the hb -- hasn't
> been outlawed (but then, it really isn't a "skill" either -- no value).
>
Does this mean that the skill is actually banned? I haven't seen anyone
do that Korbut back on bars in ages, but didn't realize that the move was
outlawed. Does anyone know the rationale behind this? And what would
happen if a gymnast did it anyway?

Thanks,
Lorraine

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 15:12:00 -0500
From: ***@MERCK.COM
Subject: INTRODUCTION

Hi everyone!

My name is Theresa. Among many other things, I am the mother of a 17 year
old gymnast. She does not have direct access at this time to talk to you
'personally' so I am doing it for her. Her name is Sally and is a junior in
High School. She competes as a Novice Optional at the Family Fun
Gymnastics' Center (FFGC). Her team is called SPIRITS. She has her eye on
West Chester College and would love any information you can give her on it.

Sally has one burning question. *Is she the oldest gymnast at her level?!*
Sally only started in gymnastics a few short years ago. I keep trying to
tell her not to compare her age with the other girls but the length of time
she has had to develop the skills she has. Any encouragement along this
line would be grateful! IMHO she has lot's of talent and drive and is small
for her age. Some people, when asked, think she is 12!.

QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS

I gave Sally the list of collage rankings from the board. She tells me that
this is Division I. Does any one keep track of Division II rankings?

We will be at the SUPERSTARS OF GYMNASTICS in Philadelphia with other
members of our club. It will be the first time we've seen gymnastics at
this high level, except for the TV of course.

Sally heard a rumor last night at practice that I refuse to believe. She
was told that all the tickets for the 1996 Olympics were sold out all ready!
They haven't even gone on sale yet have they?



This forum is great fun and we look forward to hearing from all of you. You
may address any direct responses to either Sally or me. Our address is
theresa_stiner@merck.com.

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:43:31 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: The Oscars

On Tue, March 28, Adriana wrote:
>Anyone know who she was? I tried to
get a good look at her face, but it was hard. I was thinking maybe of
Michelle Berube, but I didn't think the body type was right.<

It was Michelle Berube. Last night EXTRA did a special report on her dancing
in the Oscar show and showed a clip of the rehersal of the Lion King number.

Alexis

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:17:31 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: This, that, and door #3

> Does this mean that the skill is actually banned? I haven't seen anyone
> do that Korbut back on bars in ages, but didn't realize that the move was
> outlawed. Does anyone know the rationale behind this? And what would
> happen if a gymnast did it anyway?

I'm not sure that "banned" is really the best word. It doesn't say
anywhere that you *can't* do them, or that you'll be penalized for
doing them. They just aren't in the Code, which means that if you do
one, it's like you didn't do anything because he skill has no value. So
it doesn't do you any good to bother with it. The rationale? I think it
has something to do with the nature of the modern bars routine. Skills
that involve beating on the bar aren't in the Code anymore either. I think
it's positively ridiculous. The only rationale that I think is justified
is safety, which is the rationale I've heard for the removal of the 3/4
tumbling (with the exception of full-twisting dive rolls and just plain
dive rolls). So it's not just Shushunova's side-3/4 that's out;
Omelianchik's 1-1/2 twisting dive roll (or full-twisting arabian dive
roll--same difference) is out too.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:20:28 -0500
From: ***@WINNIE.FIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Gutsu

> > > I just found out that Tatiana Gutsu was in Indianapolis. I was told that
> she
> > > was going back to Russia? Does anyone know what's she doing?
> >
> > I'd read that she was going to stay in the US nad compete in professional
> > meets. IF she were to compete on the amateur level, she said she'd never
> > compete for Ukraine.
> When she said professional meets, did she mean stuff like Reese's?
> How about Cirque de Soleil? Now that would be interesting.

The way I understood it was that she'd do just about any meet
that was non-amateur. I'm not sure about the Cirque de Soleil.

Laura

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:25:28 -0600
From: ***@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Subject: Korbut dismount

In response to what Lorraine and others have been discussing:

If I remember correctly, isn't this dismount from a stand to a back
somersault off? If so, I have seen it done in high school competition a few
years ago, though it is possible it might have been outlawed since then. My
understanding (of high school league rules, anyway) is that skills are outlawed
or banned most often for safety reasons. For example, nothing on the knees is
allowed anymore in MN high school competition, even though people have been
doing penny drops and mill circles and the like for a long time. Also, roundoff
entry vaults were not allowed when I was competing (about three years ago,
though I'll admit I haven't kept up with the changes).

And I think the *punishment* for including such a skill is just no credit for
it (again, I speak from my background as a high school gymnast, not within the
FIG guidelines). If someone included an such an element, I think the judges
would just not give credit for it. I don't think the entire routine was
penalized.

Denise

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:20:58 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Miller's FX music

> On a similar note [pun intended], who usually determines what music is used
> in a floor routine? I've seen what I consider pretty mismatched
> choreography and music.

Sometimes the coach, sometimes the gymnast, I'd say in my experience most
often both coach and gymnast (one will find something and get the other's
approval). The choreography comes later, though, so that's not a music
selection problem, it's a bad choreography problem.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:57:28 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: This, that, and door #3

What is 1/4 tumbling and roll out tumbling?
Courtney

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:34:19 +1000
From: ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Romania v Great Britian

Hi Gang,

A friend recently attended the Romania v Great Britian meet in Glasgow
Scotland, so I thought I'd pass on results and some of his comments. As
expected the Romanians easily beat the British team.

Womens AA results: (sorry but I don't have Dobrescu's scores)

Name Nat V UB BB FX Total

1= Simona Amnar ROM 9.9 9.725 9.8 9.75 39.175
1= C Presecan ROM 9.85 9.75 9.9 9.675 39.175
3 C Adronic ROM 9.75 9.6 9.9 9.65 38.9
4 C Ungurianu ROM 9.55 9.725 9.8 9.525 38.6
5 A Cacovean ROM 9.75 9.3 9.85 9.625 38.525
6 Ionela Loaies ROM 9.65 9.625 9.6 9.35 38.225
7 A Marianescu ROM 9.9 9.7 9.3 9.225 38.125
8 Karin Symko GBR 9.6 9.15 9.675 9.2 37.625
9 Sonia Lawrence GBR 9.525 9.4 8.95 9.6 37.475
10 A L Acklam GBR 9.45 9.025 9.1 9.325 36.9
11 Jenny Cox GBR 9.375 8.6 9.3 9.025 36.3
12 Andrea Leman GBR 9.05 8.8 8.4 8.6 34.85
13 Louise Hill GBR 9.2 8.55 8.25 8.775 34.775
14 Zita Lusack GBR 8.8 8.8


In warmups Cacovean is running her FX passes seperately, under little
supervision. She seems offhand with her team mates.

Britian start alone on Vault. Lawrence does a pike front. Not a
spectacular start. Highest Vault to count. Second is identical.
Acklam, next, takes a step on a straight yurchenko. The Romanians aren't
watching and Cacovean is still gabbing, as she had right through the
introductions. Symko nailed a full twisting yurchenko, a bit loose.

The Romanians come to Vault - Loaies looks alot heavier than last
year. Andronic hits a 1&1/2 tuck (??). It looks ugly. Cocovean
overpikes her H'kva and sits it, stepping out on the second. Marianescu
shys away from H'kva's with a 1&1/2 yurchenko. It's a little untidy.
Loaies stutters also - it seems another H'kva. Presecan has excelent
form - another H'kva? Amnar does a 1&1/2 yurchenko the way it should be
done.

Lawrence hits an OK set on UB, sloppy genger but good double layout dismount.
Reeder is ill and doesn't compete, and Lusack is injured so she does only
bars.

The first four Romanian UB's are lessons in impecable form (Andronic,
Marianescu, Cacovean, Loaies) and though Andronic's ginger was a delight,
she slowed a little towards the end. Cacovean lost her swing and had to
press out into handstand on high bar, but bonus marks for two releases
(tkatchev & ginger) and stuck double layout. Loaies chucks a 'Dawes',
zero release. Getting old? Amnar again stands out, regulation tkatchev
& ginger, plus snappy blind uprise conection in a fluent piece.
Ungurianu is a bit untidy.

Symko hits, head and shoulders above on BB, though without the Rulfolfa
(now a Korbut), it's a little staid. Cox was the only other Brit to stay on.

Marianescu is beginning to show BB class before a side-somi falter leads
to broken concentration. Cacovean 'hits', but chucks in a layout, layout
to stand on one leg, ROCK SOLID, in a 90 degree split! If she meant
that, it's a classicly stupid move of needless difficulty out of the
Gutsu split double layout textbook. If she didn't, I've just seen a true
one-off. Either way, Godlike. The 2 footed layout was spot on too.

Amnar looks a little nervy, but sticks fron-somi, and ff layout ff
layout. Ungurianu and Dobrescu, especially, look in need of experience.

On FX Ungurianu is sprightly enough but not really memorable. The
Romanians are getting behind each other audibly for the first time -
though I guess no-one cheers quite like milo!

Cacoveans music is calculated to play the cutesy vote, but the almost
exclusively backwards tumbling doesn't really hold it up. She stalks off
to sit on a bench, alone.

Marianescu performs to a slower version of Fabs old inappropriate music.
It jars, and there's really not much evidence that she can pull it off.
Loaies, really, looks bored. Presecan is neat, but barely inspired, and
most tumbling rarely exceeds a full-in or triple twist.

Amnar, again, is an exception. A little bit of interest, character.
High full-in, 2 whips to 2&1/2 twists punch front, and triple twist to
finish. Andronic follows in similar vein, though without the virtuosity
of difficulty. Dobrescu closes out, with her best performance of the day.

The end

Michelle

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:46:17 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Boy's J.O. Nationals

The following info was posted on USA Gymnastics Online! for the 1995
J.O. Mens National Championships:

Host Hotel:
Park Oakland Hotel
1001 Broadway, Oakland, CA 94607
510-451-4000
($84 single/double; $89 for triple/quad)
Site:
Oakland Convention Center
Further questions:
Greg or Marcia Corsiglia, Top Flight Gymnastics, 510-796-3547
Hiroshi Fujimoto, Monterey Gymnastics, 408-372-1006

---

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:32:47 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Fwd: I'M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Billy Mispel <mcbilly@freenet1.scri.fsu.edu> was unable to post this himself
and asked if I would do it for him.

-Susan
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: I'M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 95-03-28 21:58:31 EST

Hey.The damn list-serv thingamabobber rejected this posting.Will you post it
for me?I've got to watch it again all the way through.I just can't help
myself!I'll write you after the movie,OK?The message is below.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
Today as I was thumbing through the laserdiscs(it's not available on video)
at the music store,I stumbled across this movie.

The plot.Charlie(a red haired,butt kickin',chain smokin,potty mouthed Kristi
Phillips) obtains a key from her long lost secret agent father.The crime
cartel also wants the key and they end up chasing Charlie all over the world.

Kristie's acting.On par with Mitch Gaylord,but not as bad as Kurt
Thomas.Anyway,it was much better than I expected.

The gymnastics.Wendy Bruce got quite a bit of screen time.No lines though.She
doubled for Kristie on a few skills,too.During the competition a russian
coach takes his pupil out in the hall and procedes to slap her in the face
numerous times.He's just about to punch her(!) when Kristi steps in and
proceeds to knock him(and any man who so much as looks at her!)
unconcious.Later on the russian gymnast comes to her aid.

Her bars routine was quite funny.She had about 6 releases.The announcer
said(midway through her routine)"She's setting up for the most difficult part
of her routine,five giants ito a "brandy" then to her dismount with three
half turns.SAY WHAT?!But wait...it gets better!Unknown to Kristie,her
Romanian competitor slipped some powder into the chalk box,which will make
Kristi slip off the bar.She's winding up for her dismount,slips off the bar
at the top of her giant,does a triple back,lands on the bar then does a back
flip off the bar for her dismount.She gets a 10 of course.

Overlooking that sequence,I have to say I enjoyed the movie.It was better
than Gymkata,Dream to Believe,or American Anthem.Yeah,I know that's not
saying much,but I could sit through it again.It's not worth buying,but when
and if it comes out on video it's well worth the 2.50 rental.Just for the bar
routine alone.Drop me a line if you have any specific questions about the
movie.

Billy

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 27 Mar 1995 to 28 Mar 1995
*************************************************