GYMN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 19 messages totalling 646 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. Dixie (4)
2. 7-6-5 Rule
3. Some people on gymn (2)
4. Gina's beam fall (2)
5. Olympic Coaches
6. Olympic Trials (2)
7. WAG: US of A Trials on Sunday.
8. Boys Optional Coach Needed
9. CHINESE CHAMPIONSHIPS
10. Jaycie Phelps' FX music
11. Olympic Trials stuff (long)
12. USA:Alternates?(7-6-5 rule)
13. We dont all live in the US!!

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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 08:16:46 -0400
From: ***@MINDSPRING.COM
Subject: Dixie

Underdog writes:

> Some people don't like "Dixie" for certain reasons. I think
>that song could turn out be controversial for Amy and her coach.

Count on it. The Atlanta paper is a monopoly and *very* left. If they
have someone covering, and I'm sure they will, count on it being made a
controversy. It's a shame - nice tune - and written by a guy from Idaho
who hadn't been to the South. Having no opinion one way or the
other, I will say that the one thing that might tone down any
controversy is that Amy is racially netural so far as that goes - if it
were Dawes or Miller it would be an entirely different thing.

Anyway, wading back to gymnastics, selections of 'local' music might
cause issue with other teams as well - but I hope not - I'm hoping that
somewhere out there is good music and choreography ;-)
--
--- Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 07:21:30 -0500
From: ***@INK.ORG
Subject: 7-6-5 Rule

How does the 7-6-5 rule work with the all-around competition? Doesnt a
gymnast who qualifies for the all-around have to participate in all 4
events? For instance, if Shannon Miller could not compete beam, and
they had Amanda Borden fill in for her, doesnt that mean that Shannon
would not be elegible for all-around? This new rule seems kinda
confusing to me. Please reply to me at: mary@ink.org

Thanks,
Mary

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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 07:20:37 -0400
From: ***@FOX.NSTN.CA
Subject: Re: Dixie

I don't think anyone has to worry about Amy Chow's optional FX in Atlanta
because,
with the 7-6-5 ruling, the U.S. won't be using her on this event as the
other six girls are a lot stronger on this event.

Leslie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 11:40:23 -0400
From: ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Dixie

*laughs* Radically neutral? Now THERE'S a contradiction of terms.

Seriously, though, one has to wonder why we have to get so political
about music choices. Amy's is just one example. For anyone who hasn't
been following it, the French women's synchro swim team is being
forced to rechoreograph their entire routine before Atlanta due to
the fact they are using Schinlder's List and had references to the
Holocost in the the routine. Now, having not the seen the routine, I
can't say one way or the other, but complaining about music seems
awfully....stupid.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 12:16:46 -0400
From: ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject: Some people on gymn

What is wrong with some of you people (Esther !!!!!!!!!!)? Did I say
the post office wasn't delivering fan mail? NO, NO, NO!!!! I said that the
post office might as well not deliver it, if it is going to be trashed
unread. I wish you people would read a post real good before you run off,
knocking yourself out, to post a message criticizing another person.

Again, I have heard more stories, JUST TODAY of professional athletes not
wanting to sign autographs, etc. I think it's the big heads more than the
person asking them. I told you most of the people asking for autographs,
come before the athlete bowing and scaping. How much more must a person do,
kiss the person's shoes?

So, Esther, I think you can stop ranting now. You were way off base. Go back
and read my post again before you misquote me. I was correct on both of the
points she decided to drag up. Oh, by the way, my name is UNDERDOG. It
seems nobody reads the end of the posts.

Underdog

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 12:20:50 -0400
From: ***@MINDSPRING.COM
Subject: Re: Dixie

>
> *laughs* Ra[ci]ally neutral? Now THERE'S a contradiction of terms.

It was tongue-in-cheek - no flames please

> Seriously, though, one has to wonder why we have to get so political
> about music choices. Amy's is just one example. For anyone who hasn't
> been following it, the French women's synchro swim team is being
> forced to rechoreograph their entire routine before Atlanta due to
> the fact they are using Schinlder's List and had references to the
> Holocost in the the routine. Now, having not the seen the routine, I
> can't say one way or the other, but complaining about music seems
> awfully....stupid.
>

Atlanta - Pandemonium struck the gymnastics world and the Olympic games
today when an Israeli rhythmic gymnastics team member performed a hoop
routine which, the Palestinian team feels, reenacted settlements being
raised on the west bank. Olympic sponsor Miller Brewing also lodged a
complaint because at one point in the routine three hoops were made to
look like a Ballantine beer logo.

--
--- Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 12:55:52 -0400
From: ***@ISMI.NET
Subject: Re: Some people on gymn

I also think that you are way off bse in saying these things Galfar. First
off, there may be a few who don't answer mail but most do, so for you to say
that a lot throw mail away is wrong. IMO, you need to stop posting things
that you know cause contravesry, when I first came on I was warned about
you, and about now i need to be writing a thank you to the person who warned
me. You are constantly making comments just to get responses, and I think
that you really need to get a life. You make some very valid comments too,
don't get my wrong, but perhaps you should think before you post.

It is also our responsibility (that is the rest of us on the list) to ignore
these stupid comments and not give him the satisfaction of us writing back.

Just my two cents!

DEAN

At 12:16 PM 7/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
>What is wrong with some of you people (Esther Thigpen!!!!!!!!!!)? Did I say
>the post office wasn't delivering fan mail? NO, NO, NO!!!! I said that the
>post office might as well not deliver it, if it is going to be trashed
>unread. I wish you people would read a post real good before you run off,
>knocking yourself out, to post a message criticizing another person.
>
>Again, I have heard more stories, JUST TODAY of professional athletes not
>wanting to sign autographs, etc. I think it's the big heads more than the
>person asking them. I told you most of the people asking for autographs,
>come before the athlete bowing and scaping. How much more must a person do,
>kiss the person's shoes?
>
>So, Esther, I think you can stop ranting now. You were way off base. Go back
>and read my post again before you misquote me. I was correct on both of the
>points she decided to drag up. Oh, by the way, my name is UNDERDOG. It
>seems nobody reads the end of the posts.
>
>Underdog
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 10:44:54 -0500
From: ***@MAGIC1.ORG
Subject: Gina's beam fall

I don't remember who brought this up but I remember the fall Gina took =
in 1994, and she did not get up and finish her routine. She walked off =
the podium in a daze and looked like she had no idea where she was or =
who she was or what she was doing. Not everyone gets back up on the =
beam, especially after a fall like that. I think Amy Chow needs to be =
congratulated on being so tough!

Amy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 10:52:12 -0500
From: ***@MAGIC1.ORG
Subject: Olympic Coaches

O.K. Don't get me wrong here, I think Marta and Mary Lee will do an =
awesome job as the girls' coaches, but I was very suprised that they =
didn't pick Bela, who would have also done a good job. I read in an =
article in the Kansas City Star they did that so that he can focus on =
Dom, but I don't buy into that. Does anyone have any ideas or theories =
as to why the picked Marta instead?

I do have to admit I feel this is the best team we have had in a long =
while and am looking forward to seeing how they do, but I can't stand =
the 7-6-5- rule, that just eliminates some qualified people from trying =
to make it to AA finals!!! I wish we could just go back to a traveling =
alternate and play less games. Just let these girls compete!

Amy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 14:07:36 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Olympic Trials

> Consistency was not demonstrated by the U.S. men as a team. A
>few of the men like Chainey Umphrey and Roethlisberger were quite
consistent, but >winning a medal requires that the whole team be consistent.
>
>Also, contrast the U.S. women's trials with the men's. The women have a
legitimate shot >at a medal, and they proved this in the competition.
Especially in the optionals, there >were very few mistakes made, even by
those who did not make the team. There is no >way the U.S. men have the same
chance for a team medal as the women.


The men missed 14 sets out of 84. How many sets did the women miss? I saw
quite a few falls, but I didn't keep a count; that seems to be an activity
reserved to people who want to hack on the men. I would guess that there
were about 8 to 10 missed sets, aproximately the same proportion ( 9 of 56)
of missed sets as the men.

OH NO! With all of those misses, perhaps we should begin tearing our hair
and predicting doom for the women.

Lets just grow up and deal with the realities of both teams; we have 14
outstanding young athletes who will go to Atlanta and put the best gymnastics
possible on the floor and, I think, will walk away successful and respected
by all, except those few people whose opinion is of no value.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 14:09:10 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Olympic Trials

>I have nothing against the U.S. men's team, but I do think all these
predicitions for medals >(especially a team medal) are a little off base.
i.e The IG editorials on NBC's Olympic >home page predicted the U.S. might
win bronze.
>
>Watching the men's trials, I was appalled at the number of falls, bobbles,
and >miscelaneous mistakes being made. There is no way the U.S. men could
win a team >medal with the number of mistakes they made at this competition.

Toughness is what wins in this sport, and we have one of the finest, toughest
teams of young men who have ever represented this country. You see misses
where I see a committment to overcome all obstacles, a toughness that will
hold up well in Atlanta. I saw John Rothlisberger, a shoo-in if there ever
was one, come out to make a statement, to re-establish himself as the top US
gymnast after finishing 2nd in Knoxville, while Blaine Wilson was driving to
confirm his new status as our top man; the competition between them was
outstanding. John Macready and Kip Simons went out and just pounded their
way through the meet; I saw both of them hit situations where it would have
been easy to lose control, but they fought through the problem and kept on
hitting. What can be said about Chainey Umphrey? He was the monster of the
meet; he drove through that thing on a mission and let nothing get in his way
or even slow him down; he simply REFUSED to fail. Then we have Jair. You saw
2 falls on Horizontal Bar; I saw a guy who, by all rights, was done after the
HB, who could have given up and faded, but who came back on his remaining
events, attacking and nailing his routines, and demanding his spot on that
team. Finally, there is Mihai. He started a little shakey on the first pass
on floor, then fell on his 3rd pass. It could have been over. Instead, he
came back with a brilliant Pommel Horse routine to reassert himself. He went
to Rings, his weakest event; he struggled, could have blown it, and then came
through with an acceptable set. Vault was another problem area; his landing
was off and he was on the verge of falling on the landing, but he refused to
allow that to happen. On to Parallel Bars, where he knocked out a great set,
good enough to put him in the spot where, with a hit routine on HB, he would
make the team. You people want a champion? I'll show you a champion; with
the vast majority of people expecting Mihai to water down his routine, take
out the Kovacs, and sliiiiiiide easily into the 7th spot, he went out and
NAILED the whole set, the most outstanding routine of the evening. And that
finish by Mihai, I believe, is characteristic of this entire team; there is
no quit, no easy way out, no coasting in this group. They have a little
rough edge, a meanness and a toughness that they wear quite well. They won't
posture for the media or for all of their critics; they will answer their
critics with what they do on the floor at Atlanta.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 13:10:38 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: WAG: US of A Trials on Sunday.

Sorry to not be into this yesterday like everyone elese, but I have
stuff to do.


I felt it would be the same five after compulsories and that it would
be almost impossible for anyone else to get in. I felt bad for Theresa since
she does have some nice skills. Same could be said for Mary Beth (loved that
cooler than cool {and risky} beam mount!) I was thinking about the situation
and based on these 7-6-5 rules, it seems like it should be possible for someone
to make the team who isn't the best in AA and be able to contribute on a few
events. It is, however, impossible for anyone who isn't in the top 7 AA to
make it.

If the 7-6-5 rule in force, I wonder if the selection process will be changed
to allow gymnasts who may be super great on one event but not so on the
others, and let them qualify. It seems like using the AA as the measure is
going to hurt these athletes. And since only 3 can even qualify to the
AA final, only three would have to be great AA since they would be doing all
4 events.


I was very dissappointed with the out come. Some of you may have been pulling
for Amanda in the last two events (and you may think this is harsh), but I
was just HOPING she'ld fall. She's not better than Theresa. In fact, Theresa
seems to be better on most events. She can out tumble her and she
was clean on the other events except that fall on BB compulsories. I can't
see how Amanda being on the team for Atlanta is good choice, she is without
a doubt - in my book- the weakest gymnast on the team. But with the likeliness
of Dom not being at full force and possibly being replaced, I thinkn
Theresa will be a great asset to the team.

But beyond all, I was most dissapointed with judging. I have complained about
this before in the past. The US nationals and big meets always have these
infated scores. Even those stuck routines (Strug's vault, DD bars) would be
lower in international competition. I just hope that the judging is fair in
Atlanta.


My predictions:

GOLD: CHINA
SILVER: ROMANIA (WHILE SHAKING THEIR HEADS IN DISBELIEF!)
BRONZE: RUSSIA
FOURTH: USA

That's how I see it now. Regardless of what Elfi and others say about the
team's depth and abilities, the Russians will be out for blood and revenge in
Atlanta. Watch out for them!


And finally, all this talk about Chow not being a great dancer, when push came
to shove, she hit all her tumbling. Borden didn't (what was the mess of a
second pass?!?!?). She's got the difficulty, too. Look at Amanar (who
many say can't dance but can tumble and gets 9.85 + scores). I think
Chow could get higher scores with her weak dance and better tumbling that
Borden could get with her weak (and inconsistent) tumbling and strong
dance.

Jeff


July is 'Dina Kotchekova' appreciation month!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 14:25:42 -0400
From: ***@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU
Subject: Re: Gina's beam fall

Actually Gina did attempt to get back on the beam ... she got on the beam
and did a few leaps before Octavian Belu told her to get off... NBC chose
not to broadcast that part.... I believe that's what the writer of that
message was referring to.

On Tue, 2 Jul 1996, The Sandersons wrote:

> I don't remember who brought this up but I remember the fall Gina took in
1994, and she did not get up and finish her routine. She walked off the podium
in a daze and looked like she had no idea where she was or who she was or what
she was doing. Not everyone gets back up on the beam, especially after a fall
like that. I think Amy Chow needs to be congratulated on being so tough!
>
> Amy
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 16:22:47 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Boys Optional Coach Needed

We are currently looking for an assistant coach to primarily coach optional
boys. We have a very large boys team (42). Last year we had 9 gymnasts
qualify to JO Nationals, 5 of those being Regional Team Members and 2
gymnasts on the National Team. Also we have two foreign gymnasts training
with us who are members of their national teams (one competed at the 1996
European Championships and the other competed at the 1996 Individual World
Championships). Next year we will have 19 boys Class 3 and above.

The primary responsibity will be coaching the boys Class 3-1 but also some
coaching of the Class IV,V,VI and classes. You will also attend meets and
some National and/or Regional Team Camps with the gymnasts.

If you would like more information please email me at ***@aol.com

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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 17:55:52 EDT
From: ***@COMPUSERVE.COM
Subject: CHINESE CHAMPIONSHIPS

7-12 June 1996, Wuhan


Women's Team

1. Beijing 382.575
2. Hunan 381.525
3. Hubei 380.475
4. Sichuo 374.125
5. Guangdong 372.450
6. Liaoning 372.300


Men's Team

1. Hubei 571.075
2. Beijing 561.175
3. Guangdong 558.750
4. Bayi 556.500
5. Zhejiang 552.625
6. Hunan 552.100

These were the highest level championships for many years.

With regards,
Lajos

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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 18:43:14 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Jaycie Phelps' FX music

>
I guess this is kind of a stupid question, but while I was watching

trials I recognized Jaycie's fx music and thought that I had heard it

somewhere before.

It was in Cutting Edge, and also was used by US ice dancers Punsalan &
Swallow in 1991.
:-)
Mara

PS Wishing a happy Canada Day to our Canadian subscribers!

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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 18:52:20 -0400
From: ***@GATEWAY.US.SIDWELL.EDU
Subject: Olympic Trials stuff (long)

I'm just catching up on my mail since I've been pretty incommunicado in
Boston...

Re Doni Thompson retiring: the joke in my family is that it was so she
didn't have to go to the Olympic Trials and hear the announcer say "Now
up on beam, Doni THOMP-son" (the announcer at the FleetCenter had an
annoying tendancy to exaggerate gymnasts' names; favorites were Mihai
Bagiu, Jennie Thompson, Mark Booth, Amy Chow. And Chainey Umphrey
turned into Chainey Humphrey.)

Re Mark Booth: I'm sorry he didn't make the team too, I really enjoyed
watching him and his scores seemed a little low.

Re women's floor routines: for the most part they were awful. After
compulsories, my mother said "I can't believe we're paying to go watch those
floor routines fifty million times." After optionals, she said "Hmm, maybe
I'm glad we're going to compulsories instead of optionals..." Particularly
painful was Amy Chow. Another Pozsar creation made with no attention paid to
the personality of the gymnast (like Kerri Strug's routine). Oh, and I was
just reading through Bela's book again, where he calls Zmeskal's 1992 floor
routine "another great choreographic creation by Geza Pozsar, my dear friend,
etc., etc...." Hmm, Zmeskal's 92 routine wasn't bad, but I think a more
appropriate description would be "one of Geza Pozsar's rare decently
choreographed routines."

Speaking of Kerri Strug, I have *never* seen her so absolutely dead on
and comfident. I was worried about some of my favorites crumbling on the
last event and not making the team, but there was not a doubt in my mind
that Kerri would hit solid. Congratulations Kerri!

Re the U.S. men: I noted that many of them were doing easier tumbling
than the women. A double tuck was a fairly common floor dismount for the
men, but most women dismounted with full-in's or front tumbling.

Amy Chow's bar routine rocks! Difficult, original, nice form...what more
can you ask for? And it was super-bold for her to get back up and finish
beam routine. In fact, she was just awesome all around, compulsories and
optionals (except for floor).

Re Tom Forster: one thing that confused me was that he sounded like this
was *his* last shot at the Olympics. He's got to have other gymnasts
training for 2000 (or 2004, or 2008...) or some will come to the gym or
something. And I don't think you should just decide he's an awful coach
just because of the fluff piece. He has consistently produced some of
the happiest elite gymnasts in America. BTW, where was Lori throughout
this whole focus on Tom?

Why did NBC say in the beginning that Dom Dawes didn't have a clubmate at
the Trials and then proceed to completely ignore Larissa Fontaine, who
*was* at Trials and *is* Dom's clubmate? Fontaine was the Mark Booth of
the women -- they showed routines from everyone but her.

The hugs at the end of NBC's footage were so fake. I hope Marta Karolyi
and Mary Lee Tracy can bond this team together more before the Olympics.
It was great seeing Phelps and Borden genuinely happy for each other (I
especially liked the shot NBC got of the two of them before floor, where
they were holding hands and talking). I noticed that they were both
there for each other throughout the Trials -- each of them would get the
first hug from Mary Lee after a routine, then from the other.

Funniest moment in the NBC broadcast: "Karolyi coached Nadia, coached
Mary Lou, and now.....Kerri Strug!" (Kim who? Dominique who?)

BTW, the Boston Globe reported that Jair Lynch had a painful blister
(rip?) on his hand that he got during p-bars and that's why he fell so
many times on high bar. My father noticed that his coach was paying a
lot of attention to his (Jair's) right hand before pommels.

Mary Beth Arnold got *robbed* on optional beam! If she had gotten the
score she deserved, she'd probably be in that 1st alternate slot instead
of Kulikowski. I hope she and some of the other 14-year-olds (Teft,
Thompson) hold on until 2000. BTW, did anyone else notice that the
gymnasts in the competition seemed to be either 14 years old or 19 years
old? There were of course exceptions (both Aerials girls, Bhardwaj,
Strug) but a pretty high percentage of the gymnasts seemed to be one of
two ages.

Re wanting Borden to fall so Kulilowski could be on the team: *perhaps* you
can argue that Kulikowski is a better gymnast, but I think Borden will be a
more positive influence on the team, simply because she's older and more
experienced. And I think Borden is a better gymnast too, but that's just
MHO. In fact, all of this is just MHO, and now I've gone on long enough, so
back to your regularly scheduled email...

Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 22:56:44 UT
From: ***@MSN.COM
Subject: Re: USA:Alternates?(7-6-5 rule)

>
>The 7-6-5 rule says - each country may bring 7 gymnasts and may compete all
>7 gymnasts. What happens is that the coach determines the 6 best athletes
>on each event and assigns them to compete on that event. The team score is
>made up of the 5 highest scores from each event. What this allows is for
>a coach to put up the strongest people on each event rather than having a
>weak spot -

What does this mean as far as Amanda Borden is concerned? She is my
absolute favorite and made the seventh place slot. Does this rule apply
only to the team competition? Does this mean Amanda may not compete? Help,
now I am worried.


Amanda tied for first on beam and was second on floor so she will be likely
for those.
Jjeorje

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 22:49:17 UT
From: ***@MSN.COM
Subject: Re: We dont all live in the US!!

----------Apologies if someone did post the results of the trials at the
conclusion
of optionals , but it never made my mailbox, only comments on individuals,
coaches and commentators.
Top seven in each event

Vault-
1) Kerri Strug 9.950, 2) Dominique Dawes 9.850, (tie for third) Andree
Pickens and Kristy Powell 9.825, 5) Mohini Bhardwaj 9.812, 6) Amy Chow 9.800,
7) Jaycie Phelps 9.737
Bars-
1) Dawes 9.950, (tie for second) Chow, Phelps, and Katie Teft 9.82, 5) Amanda
Borden 9.787, 6) Mary Beth Arnold 9.775, 7) Bhardwaj 9.750
Beam-
1) Borden 9.862, (tie for second) Dawes and Strug 9.825, 4) Kulikowski 9.787,
5) Jennie Thompson 9.750, 6) Bhardwaj 9.675, (tie for seventh) Arnold and
Teft 9.625
Floor-
1) Strug 9.925, 2) Borden 9.787, (tie for third) Phelps and Chow 9.712, 5)
Teft 9.700, 6) Kulikowski 9.637, 7) Larissa Fontaine 9.625
Totals (including fridays compulsaries and optionals)-
1) Dawes 78.157, 2) Strug 78.108, 3) Phelps 77.736, 4) Chow 77.267, 5) Borden
77.162, 6) Kulikowski 76.491, 7) Arnold 76.368

Now I dont really care who is on the US team, but since Ive heard almost
nothing else for 2 weeks I would like to know the outcome!
Team USA-
Dominique Dawes, Kerri Strug, Jaycie Phelps, Amy Chow, and Amanda Borden.
Petitioned in are Dominique Moceanu and Shannon Miller.
Who is Tom Forester? What did he do to upset everyone?

Tom Forester is the coach of Theresa Kulikowski and Kristy Powell. First
Kristy fell off bars which is , as you know, very bad. Then after Theresa
fell off the beam, he put his head in his arms. The commentators kept saying
how upset and disapointed he was and how much he wanted to go. He showed very
little support of the girls.

What exactly happened to Amy Chow on Beam?
Amy did a beam pass, something with a few layouts in it and landed actually on
her face (by her eye). Amazingly she got back up and did a standing full.
She was asked later and said she couldn't see very well during the rest of her
routine.
Who is John Tesh?
John Tesh is a very annoying commentator.

Whats the gossip on Miller and Moceanu's injuries?
Miller and Moceanu will be ready for the Olympics from what I've heard. They
are undergoing treatments and are doing lite training.
What happenned to Kulikowski and her teamate?
(above) falls off beam and bars


Jjeorje

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1996 - Special issue
*************************************************