GYMN-L Digest - 3 Apr 1996 to 4 Apr 1996
There
are 17 messages totalling 617 lines in this
issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. alternate
mailing list
2. Mark Sohn
3.
Soviet replacements (2)
4. Kim
Zmeskal
5. Woodward Camp
6. running training
7. Lower Level support
8. Kim Zmeskal and Pressure
9. Plea for help!
10. Kodak Commercial
11. GYMN-L Digest - 3 Apr 1996 to 4 Apr
1996
12. Dominique Dawes
13. ethnicity
14. Kim Zmeskal's
Comeback Attempt
15.
Russians
16. training
L5-10 & Mailing lists
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:14:59
-0500
From: ***@PRIS.BC.CA
Subject:
alternate mailing list
Everybody out there, who is looking for
information specific to younger/less
experienced gymnasts.
I am also looking for a similiar group. I wonder
however,
if we could keep a mailing group active, with just this info. I
don't
want to start a useless debate like here, but I really don't think we
shouldn't post information relative to the subject. I think there are
probably
enough of us, to support such discussion.
I think right now we are
just the silent
lurkers.
Just to give you some info about myself, I am a level 1 coach
in northern
British Columbia, Canada.
For those of you who don't know, that level deals
with
the introdutory gymnastics, as well as recreational
gymnastics. Right
now the youngest group I teach is 2 & under, while my
oldest are 12 year olds.
that's all
folks.........
Chad
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:08:55
-0500
From: ***@CIC.NCHE.EDU
Subject:
Mark Sohn
Since this year's Worlds will be
event finals only, does anyone know
if Mark Sohn plans to go for pommels?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:38:54
-0500
From: ***@UKY.CAMPUS.MCI.NET
Subject:
Re: Soviet replacements
Didn't Igor Korbchinsky
replace someone in the EF at the '91 Worlds?
Chris
>Howdy,
GYMNers:
>
>In response to Jeffery Ruell's post asking when Soviets (don't know specific
>ethnicities/citizenships:( ) replaced
other Soviets in meets, two biggies
stand
>out in my mind:
>
>
1. 1985 Worlds - (USSR
replaced Irina Baraksonava and another (don't
>remember who, sorry...fill the gap in my aging memory?) with Omelianchik and
>Shushunova, and you all know who won--Omelianchik
and Shushunova!
>
>
2. 1992 Olympics - This one
broke my Stars 'n Strips heart--Gutsu
falls
>off beam, drops out
of AA qualifying standings on her team, but the now
infamous
>'knee injury' keeps Roza Galieva out of AA and Gutsu gets
back into AA, and you
>all know who won--Gutsu!
>
>I knew deep down in '92 that Galieva wasn't really injured, and was amazed (and
>at peace with my instincts) when it was confirmed by Alexandrov on the 1995
>Atlanta Invitational
broadcast. Broke my heart for Galieva AND Miller...
>
>
>Ciao, for
now,
>
>Michele
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:12:15
-0600
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject:
Re: Soviet replacements
The other Soviet "injury" in 1985
was Olga Mostepnanova, along with
Irena Baraksanova, who were replaced by Elena Shushunova
and Oksana
Omelianchik.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:17:38
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Re: Kim Zmeskal
I got many reactions to what
I wrote about Kim Zmeskal in the last time I
wrote. I just want to say that I agree that if she doesn't
want to do
gymnastics anymore that's fine, it's not
my place to tell her what to do not
that I'm
trying to, it's just sit here and wonder why would she start to come
back and then all-of-a -sudden not want to comeback, this is
what's got me
writting
Also when I say respect I mean the
respect in the fact that you have all
these other
gymnasts that go through all this pain to get to the olympics,
and she seems like she just want a free ride because she was
in the olympics
before,
I think she's using her injuries as an excuse, not like when she was
younger and she actually worked for what she got, her
respect respect from me
and
others in the international community. Like I said in my writeup
earlier
I still thinks she's the best gymnast in
my opinion, but she could have still
made it and I
think she's just given up?
Let me say some of this was my opinion, but
my opinion of what I was told
from the gym don't
forget I'm not trying to say she should do something she
doesn't
want to but I think she does but doesn't want to go through all the
stress she went through on the road to the olympics in 92
Thanks for responding
any other comments mail my back
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:46:05
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Woodward Camp
>Our gym is going to go to Woodward Gymnastics
Camp. I was wondering has
>anyone been there and what is it like.
I was on the
Mens' coaching staff at Woodward in 1990. It was a
great
experience. Not only were the facilities
first rate, but the coaches and
senior gymnasts
were all very helpful. I only have two criticisms. Their
mens'
program was a little disorganized. Not seriously, but the workout hours
were so long that most of the gymnasts were burnt out by wednesday of the
week. Second,
they didn't let the gymnasts use the skate boarding facilities.
This was a
good decision, made to keep injuries to a minimum. However, they
let the skaters have virtually unlimited access to the gym.
IMHO this was
dumb because skaters (by and large)
have that most dangerous combination of
attribute:
no skill (in gymnastics) and no fear. I had to make more than one
emergency spot.
All this aside, from an athlete's
perspective, it is a great experience. You
will
get to meet lots of other gymnasts and coaches and get new viewpoints on
your skills and training. I highly recommend it.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:46:08
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
running training
>I was very interested in the discussion regarding
aerobic training versus
>anaerobic. My 10 year
old is trying to get ready for Level 6 and has been
>working
with the Level 6 coach once a week to polish her skills, etc. She's
>been told that she needs to increase body strength,
particularly in her legs
>and has asked me to
take her to the local track so she can begin running. My
>question is, in light of the conversation about aerobic
training, is running
>NOT the appropriate step for her to take at this
point? I applaud her
>initiative, but if she
needs to increase strength in her legs, should she
>just
practice sprints?
My first advice would be this: Trust your daughter's
coach. 99 times out of
100, a team level coach will be trained well enough
to come with an effective
workout regimen that
will not be counterproductive to your gymnast's
performance.
That aside, there are many running drills, leg
strength drills,
and drills for anaerobic endurance
that can be done at home, in the gym, or
on a
track. E-mail me for specifics if you are interested.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:52:09
-0700
From: ***@CSN.NET
Subject:
Lower Level support
I'd be happy for more discussions about providing
support for lower level
gymnasts. These include parents' club activities,
building a basis of local
media support,
fundraising, etc. Count me in!
Cindy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:07:03 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Kim
Zmeskal and Pressure
>>***@aol.com writes:
I think the theory of the burnout and
the presure of the media is the
reason that she did stop the comeback, I mean who wants to
go through all
that 2 times?<<<
What
is wrong with the theory that Kim Zmeskal is just
ready to quit
gymnastics? Has it never occurred to anyone that
maybe it is time for Kim to
move on for Kim's own
sake? Maybe she should've consulted
her fans before
getting on with her life. The decision is made, now step aside and
leave her
alone.
I have a problem with
people on this list blaming the media for the pressures
on
these athletes. The fans create the
interest in the athletes, not the
media. Their job is to pick up on what's hot,
and the fans have chosen their
leaders. The fans also decide when someone is
out...so if you aren't pleased
with the media
attention, maybe you should attend meets with your hands
folded
in your lap, so they won't know who you like.
Should Kristie Phillips
have declined the cover of Sports Illustrated, just
in
case she didn't make it? Should Kim
not have won World's just in case she
fell at the
Olympics? Should Dominique have
turned down the Kodak commercial
just in case she
didn't live up to Nadia's legend?
Maybe the media shouldn't do
pre-Olympic press for any sports to shield the
athlete
from pressure and then show the winners after the fact as the
"Athlete
We Couldn't Show You In Case She/He Failed And We
Didn't Want To Be
Responsible For It".
If
you think the pressure of the media is intense, imagine you are a world
class athlete reading this list.
Kris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:25:38
EST
From: ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject:
Re: Plea for help!
I also have an 11 YO Level 5 (almost 6) and would
be interested in a
mail list for parents of Level
5-10 gymnasts. Maybe Rachele has some
ideas on how
this could maybe happen?
Linda
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:29:02
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Kodak Commercial
I was the person to originally post the message about
the Moceanu commerical.
I
am 14 years old. Personally, I don't think one commercial (although it's
being aired all over the US), is going to greatly affect too
many people's
states of mind. I mean, I totally
agree with one person who wrote that it was
her
choice to do the commercial, and that she probably knew what it would
look like. I just don't understand why some people comlain about gymnasts not
being
publiced enough (I'm not trying to start a GYMN-L
war, this is just my
personal opinion) and then
when one current gymnast is finally given a
commercial
deal, everyone is against it!! I think Moceanu looked
great, and
it looks like she'll be back in
competition in no time.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:47:21
-0800
From: ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject:
Re: GYMN-L Digest - 3 Apr 1996 to 4 Apr 1996
Automatic digest
processor writes:
{...}
> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:32:59
-0500
> From:
"***@UNHF.UNH.EDU
> Subject: Re: Plea for help!
>
>
I am also interested in conversing with other gymn-enthusiasts
who are more
> involved with the Level 5-10
kids. My daughter is a 10-year old Level 5
> (almost
6), and although I find most of the information discussed on this list
>
interesting, I would love more discussion of booster
club issues, parent
> issues, how-to's for young girls (or boys) who are trying to
"level-up", etc.
I
> don't
have the technical expertise to set up and/or run another list for these
>
kinds of discussions, and I haven't brought up these
issues on this list
> because I have gotten the
impression that most of the people on the list are
> beyond
this stuff, but I'd love to see another list get started!! Count me
in!!
> Lynanne Clark
Why start another list. Cant we deal those issues here ?
------------------------------
{...}
------------------------------
>
>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996
19:05:53 -0600
> From:
***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Soviet
replacements
>
> Soviet gymnast were close because they trained
together for a long time and
> lived togther, isolated from family and the world, essentially.
The sports
> system had complete control over
there life. In US, people do not give the
> coach
complete control over someone's life from age 5 till their washed up.
>
You may think they do, but they don't. KArolyi can't
stop things like
> wishes to move to other
gyms, etc. I don't think that subing people would
help
> the US situation.
>
> BTW:
Even in the SAME gym, people aren't really close. Look at most of the
> file footage on Karolyi's and Nunno. Maybe in other places they're close,
> but not there.
>
> Jeff
Sure soviet
athletes could leave any time they wanted.
Course their family would have
to give up the nicer housing and the other
perks
they enjoyed having practically sold their kid to the govt.
It was not
uncommon for 3 generations of family to be stuffed into a
cramped apt. Sometimes 2 families.
Usually kid athletes who did well,
their
families got nice big private apartments.
Sometimes houses.
Sure you could leave. Biggest problem was that the other coach
might
not accept you, and of course, your family
lost the cool hopuse,
the
new car, thye TV etc.
But DONT say they didnt let you leave.
Lest you cringe at that,
remember we still sell our kids.
Not to the GOVT but to industry.
------------------------------
{...}
------------------------------
------------------------------
>
>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996
00:58:59 -0600
> From:
***@MERLE.ACNS.NWU.EDU
> Subject: Intro, coaching question, and
help
>
> Hello fellow gymners:
>
>
Well, as you can see from my subject, I am "new" to this listserv,
but to be
> honest, I have been reading these
most interesting, and sometimes rather
> entertaining,
postings for months. I thought that
this would be a good time
> to 'introduce' myself. I have this tendancy
to tangentially ramble on, so
> please forgive
what may seem like pointless psychobabble : )
>
> I am student at
Northwestern University getting a degree in Education - I
> plan to teach biology and psychology at the high school
level. My
> experience in gymnastics is solely at the recreational
level, as I did many
> sports as an adolescent.
. .but I am interested in coaching gym at the high
> school
level so if anyone out there can give me some tips as to how to go
> about this, I would greatly appreciate it. I guess you could say that I
> have been following gymnastics (probably not as religiously
as some) since
> the Mary Lou/Bart Conner et
al. generation, and I have loved watching this
> sport
(both men and womens) evolve ever since. This listserv has been great
> in providing info and discussion about a sport that,
generally speaking, you
> hardly hear about
(except around the Olympics).
>
> At any rate, I will save you
all from my boring autobiography, but there is
> one
thing I would like to bring up, don't worry, it's not controversial
> (although those topics seem to generate the most interesting
conversation).
> I am working on my thesis for this summer, and it is
all about the
> socialization aspects of gifted
and talented adolescents. Part of
my
> research will consist of solely the
academically talented, but what is most
> relevant
to me is the research on "gifted" athletes. I want to focus on
> gymnasts, well, mainly the females because many of them
train pretty
> intensely at the age I'm
interested in, although I'm sure there are males
> out
there as well (and I'd love to hear about them). I haven't ironed out
> all the details yet, but I plan to put together a
questionnaire/survey for
> athletes who for
instance, go to school part time, or even full time, or at
> home, or through correspondence, or a private (or what have you), but train
> nearly full time.
(I would be interested in interviews as well.) Many
> people
(the media, journalists) say that gifted students, be it at
> academics, an instrument, or a sport, "give up"
things that their peers
> experience, but I
tend to disagree, and this is part of the motivation for
> my research.
>
> To clear up any mixed
feelings/reactions out there, this project is not
> going
to "exploit" the sport of gymnastics. I, for one, would never do that
>
(that's what Joan Ryan's for). Although, according to Garlfar, yes there
> are
taboo talking truths out there, I want, if anything, to address the
> educational
issues so that athletes can do both.
As an educator, I plan on
> private
tutoring for athletes like this, so in a way, I would like to know
> what the best types of interventions, pedagogy, etc. work
for students of
> this nature. Although I will
never be a Bela Karolyi, or
to be fair, a Kelli
> Hill, I still want to contribute to a sport I
believe is the most amazing -
> I mean what other sport do you spend 95%
of the time in mid air? Not even
a
> feat Jordan could imagine. . .not to
disparage the king of basketball
>
himself :
) Without any further glib, if
anyone could please email me
> privately if you
are a coach, or a gymnast (male or female), or really
> anyone with advice that would just love to help a poor
college student out.
> The OTC hasnt' really
helped, but if anyone has the proper channels and
> would
like to share, please do.
>
> Thanks for the great conversation -
I, too, believe in hearing everyone's
> opinions
- although I probably just dug myself a hole by saying that. . .
> anyway thanks for reading, sorry if this was a bit long, I
can't help it,
> I'm going to be a teacher! (If any of this seems senseless, it's
probably
> because I'm on this bizarre college
student sleep cycle) and any response,
> flames
as well, are welcome.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Sue
>
Email
me ***@netcom.com
Ill introduce you to a guy who will talk
to
you about what he has missed, training since he was 8. Hes
leaving competition to have time to catch up on what he
missed.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:29:16
-0500
From: ***@CLOUD9.NET
Subject:
Re: Dominique Dawes
> Does
anyone know how Dominique Dawes is doing?
I haven't heard
>anything about her
since February,
Check out http://www.olympic.nbc.com/hopefuls/dawes.html
and
.../dawes320.html for an online diary by Dawes.
Debbie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:36:01
-0500
From: ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject:
ethnicity
Jason is right about ethnicity vs. citizenship. The '89 team members
from
Latvia - Natalia Lashchenova and Yelena Sazonenkova - are NOT ethnic Latvians.
They are Slavs,
probably Russians. After the USSR broke up, the only Slavs who
could get Latvian citizenship were people whose parents or
grandparents had
lived in Latvia prior to 1940. If
your family moved there later than that, you
were
out of luck. I *assume* that's what happened to Lashchenova,
because she
very quickly married and moved to
Belarus (a Slavic state) after the breakup.
Sazonenkova,
on the other hand, stayed and competed for Latvia, so she must be
from a Slavic family that has lived in Latvia since before
1940. Otherwise she
never would have been able to
get citizenship to compete for Latvia. The only
ethnic
Latvian gymnast I can think of right now is Lyudmila Prince.
Even now, there are
gymnasts of various nationalities competing for the
"wrong" ex-Soviet republics. Dmitry Karbanenko
is Ukrainian but competes for
Russia, Chusovitina
competes for Uzbekistan but is definitely Slavic, not
Uzbek! Most of the
time your citizenship depends on where you happened to have
been born.
Before the USSR broke
up, a lot of the athletes referred to themselves as
"Russians,"
regardless of their nationality, because they knew that Westerners
used "Russia" as a synonym for the entire Soviet
Union. I run into this a lot
with emigrants too. A
taxi driver in Chicago from Ukraine told me he was
from
Russia and was kind of surprised when I asked "Don't you mean
Ukraine?"
when he said he was from Kharkov.
Emigrants from Armenia have also told me
they're
from Russia. They just assume (and are usually right) that most
Americans
have never heard of Armenia, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan or whatever,
whereas pretty much everyone has heard of Russia, so they
just go with that.
The only emigre community I've
encountered that goes out of its way to make a
distinction
is the Ukrainians (though not all of them). To my mind they seem a
bit fanatical in their "hatred" of Russia, but I
suppose they have their
reasons...
On an odd note, Rustam Sharipov, who is half
Tajik and half Ukrainian and
competes for Ukraine
even though he was born in Dushanbe, Tajikistan, will
often
say in conversation *today* things like "back home in the Soviet
Union."
He obviously knows there *is* no Soviet Union, but he's just
so used to saying
that that he still does. That's
the country he originally competed for and,
when
training in Moscow as a USSR citizen, he was randomly "assigned"
to
the republic of Ukraine (as far as I know, it
was a complete coincidence that
his mother was
Ukrainian - his family has always lived in Tajikistan and still
does). So he more or less ended up a "Ukrainian"
by a bureaucratic decision
back when he was a
teenager! He doesn't even speak Ukrainian...
So, all in all, things
are still just as confusing as before the breakup!
Beth
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:05:56
-0500
From: ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject:
Kim Zmeskal's Comeback Attempt
I just saw an
article in the Atlanta Journal today that said that Kim
Zmeskal
would not be attempting to make the 1996 Olympic team. At first I
was disappointed, but I was not surprised.
But
tonight I got the most interesting e-mail message it is from a man named
Micheal L. Roge. He claims it was
a forwarded message from Kim Zmeskal. This
"
message" was filled with personal insults toward
me. I would have loved to
communicate with Kim Zmeskal by e-mail. But if this is really her,
I have no
desire. This whole experience with the
hatred and venom spewed at me, has
left a bad
taste in my mouth toward gymnastics.
I find some of you people some of
the most closed-minded, hateful,
vindictive people
I have ever had the chance to meet on all of my time of
the
internet. What I expected to be a pleasant, rewarding, experience, has
resulting in being absolutely vile. For those of you who
wish to ignore me
and call me personal insults,
fine. But you can not ignore the truth. NEVER!
This
is why you persecute me now.
The world knows the truth. Not the
gymnastics osteriches who WANT to ignore
it,........ THE WORLD.
If the message was real, for "great" Kim Zmeskal
to
e-mail me and spew filithy
insults, is sickening. You would think this woman
would
have used that time to send positive responses to her fans, the people
who LOVE her, not throw s*** at a total stranger she
disagreed with. If I am
so contemptible, as the
"supposed" Kim claims, why were you wallowing in the
mud?
For all of you who disagree with me, you must
hate the Atlanta
Journal-Constitution, TIME Magazine, Joan Ryan, countless
newspapers and
magazines, WAGA-TV, Kristie Phillips, Brandy Johnson, and a
ton of other
people. I got a lot of my information
was from these sources. Did they lie?
Are you saying TIME magazine lied?
Kristie Phillips?
Since you people delight in insulting me personally
in public, and private,
I will answer you here, in open public.
Now
I suppose I am telling rumor and lies about Kim not trying for the
Olympics?
Read the Atlanta Journal, Thursday, April 4. Call me a liar now. I
knew that old b**** wasn't going to the Olympics six months
ago. Anybody
with any sense knows she washed
up.
HOW YA LIKE ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:36:06
-0600
From: ***@SNCAC.SNC.EDU
Subject:
Russians
I just wanted to add couple words to Beth's message about
ethnicity.
All this confusion with the word "Russian" is that it
means two things in
Russian language.
The problem is that "Russkiy" and
"Rossiyskiy" are both
translated to English as "Russian." Back in old days (when we had 15
republics and one Union) we said "Rossiyskiy"
when we wanted to
emphasize the belonging to
Republic of Rossiya (Russia), while "Russkiy"
meant belonging
to the Soviet Union. So, anybody or
anything from the USSR
concidered
to be "Russkiy" or "Sovetskiy" (Soviet), while anybody or
anything from Russian (Rossiyskiy)
Soviet Federative Socialist Republic
(which is now
known as Russian Federation) was "Rossiyskiy."
Just
like Rustam Sharipov I say
"like back home in the [Soviet] Union."
My mind
still refuse to perceive the former republic of the USSR to be
foreign countries.
It is just like one of a sudden in order to get from
the State of New York to State of New Jersey or from
California to
Arizona you would need to have a Visa and an international
passport. For
me we still live in the same country and you can see this
feeling of unity
between the gymnasts from the
former republics of the USSR.
Vladimir
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:47:47
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Re: training L5-10 & Mailing lists
In a message dated 96-04-04
12:05:11 EST, you write:
> My
>question
is, in light of the conversation about aerobic training, is running
>NOT
the appropriate step for her to take at this point? I applaud her
>initiative, but if she needs to increase strength in her
legs, should she
>just
>practice sprints?
Dear Lynanne,
It has always been to my understanding that
running (as in track) puts a lot
of pressure on
the joints and can result in an increased chance of injury
while at the gym.
Our coaches don't recommend trying out for track at school
because of this factor, but they try to let the kids make up
their own minds.
To get an
accurate response to this question, you could try talking to a
sports doctor in your area or talk to the physical trainer
at the school.
They should be
able to tell you more about the risks involved when combining
different types of conditioning.
With all the
different talk on this mailing list, In my opinion, I would
like to see a list started for us parents who want to talk
about our kids and
get the help more focused at
our level. Unfortunately, I too, am
not
experienced enough to set up a list of this
nature. If anyone out there could
do this I think
there would be a great response in readership and us parents
would be very thankful.
I am keeping track of the
responses who would like to see a more focused
list
for junior gymnasts, so If anyone can get a
list going, I give you the list
to get it up and
running.
Yours in gymnastics
Becky
------------------------------
End
of GYMN-L Digest - 4 Apr 1996 - Special issue
*************************************************