GYMN-L Digest - 4 Aug 1995 to 5 Aug 1995

There are 23 messages totalling 791 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Brink and brief intro (3)
2. Bela's Book "Feel No Fear"
3. Brink and Intro
4. Children Gymnastics Books
5. Zmeskal's book
6. best biography / children's books? (2)
7. 1982
8. pictures on WWW pages
9. Kim Zmeskal Book
10. Mo Huilan
11. Fwd: best biography / children's books?
12. Games
13. Thompson
14. Kim Young
15. survey
16. Temple regionals
17. Gymnastics books (2)
18. TV coverage (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 20:08:33 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Brink and brief intro

I watched some of the Olympic Festival today and during Heather Brink's
floor routine one of the commentators asked if it (the score) could be
a ten. Julianne McNamara said the the routine was clean but she thought
it wasn't as difficult as the other competitors. Does that really
matter? It the routine is out of a 10 and a gymnast does it perfectly
why would it matter how difficult the other competitor's routines were?
I was just wondering.

I have been using the gymn group for a while and now I decided to
finally write my intro:) I don't want to bore you by writing a lot
about me so I will make this short.
My name is Margi and have been into gymnastics since the '92
Olympics. I don't actually take gymnastics lessons (although I am
trying out for the high school gymnastics team next year) but I do
gymnastics alll the time outside. My twin sister ( Mardi) and I set out
rope for a floor exercise and do routines to music we taped off of
competitions. We set up a vault out of old sofa cushions and a running
trampoline. My dad make us a cool beam and we use a bar on our swing
set.
We have done it this way for about 3 years and love it. Our bedroom
walls are *covered* with gymnastics posters and autographed pictures.
We have about 20 tapes full of gymnastics competitions.

I just thought I would share. Thanx!

Margi :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 20:13:45 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Bela's Book "Feel No Fear"

I also read the book Feal No Fear. I thought it was good. I didn't know
that Bela got so many things messed up. Being the coach you'd think
he'd know. :) I didn't know about the mistakes when I read it. I'd
think Bela would double check on a few of those facts before he put it
in the book. Other than that I thought it was good.

Just my opinion :)
Margi & Mardi ;)

Responding to:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the topic has popped up again (and we have so many new members
since
last year), I thought it might be an interesting idea to re-post my
'review'
of Bela's book "Feel No Fear."

Enjoy!
;-)
Mara

***********
Date: Mon, May 16, 1994 11:49 PM EST
Subj: Book Review: Bela's Autobiography
To: gymn@mit.edu

I got my hands on a copy of Bela's book, "Feel No Fear," and have been
reading it. Some of it (in terms of his memory) is unbelievable.
According
to him:

Mary Retton barely edged out a Sov for 85 Am Cup (the Sovs skipped Am
Cup
that year)

Kim Zmeskal was the 1991 DTB Cup AA Champion (I thought she skipped 91
DTB
and was 5th in 1990)

Zmeskal was the 1990 Paris winner (wasn't she 2nd to Bogie?)

Kerri Strug came to train with him just after the 88 Olympics, and
(implied)
he developed her. The "6-pack" of 1989 was Strug, Zmeskal, Grivich,
Uherek,
Scherr, and Stokes. Apparently Kelly Pitzen did not exist.

The Romanian girls won the 1972 Friendship Cup (Team). A picture *in
the
book* contradicts this, showing the Romanians second to the Soviets

Brandy Johnson retired/accomplished nothing after she left him in late
1988
(apparently a World silver medal doesn't count)

Kristie Phillips was being coached by Don Peters at the 88 Nationals
where
she "was disasterous" and placed 9th (she had been back with Bela for 3
months by then - he coached her at the US Classic 6 weeks before
Nationals
and claimed to have gotten her back into form - I attended that meet).

The US *led* East Germany after compulsories in 1988. The business
with
Rhonda Faehn on the podium occurred during *optionals*

Zmeskal and Betty Okino finished on *vault* at American Cup, both
scoring
10s. KZ *first missed* on beam, then came back on floor and *vault*

He knew immediately (1977) that Silivas would be a star (just how old
was she
then, anyway??? <g>)

Okino's 1990 Goodwill Games vault that was given a 0.00 was in the
final
event of the AA and dropped her from 1st to 4th when *she was given 2
re-vaults*????? and scored 9.65 and 9.7 (the 0.00 was in the team and
she
counted a 9.8, she never led the AA and had hit her foot on UB in her
first
rotation)

The Romanian Gymnastics Federation withdrew the team from 77 Euros,
while
Bela was begging them not to

Bela's only goal in the unselfish betterment of his athletes, with no
personal gain for himself. He illustrates this by describing how he
refused
a 10% commission off Retton's earnings as a motivational (???) speaker.

------

Granted, there is some interesting and (my opinion) valid stuff in the
book
(I agree with his opinion that Rhonda Faehn belonged on the 88 Olympic
team
more than MM), the Audrey Schweyer/Don Peters business, etc. Still,
his
memories seem quite inventive...(I think soon we will see Hyperion
Books
hiring a new fact checker - well, maybe not, they did a Tonya/Nancy
book
too).

Would like to hear other opinions.

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 23:20:25 -0500
From: ***@VIPER.NET
Subject: Re: Brink and brief intro

I didn't realize that we are suppose to introduce ourselves to the group....well
here goes.

I haven't been on the Internet long, but I found this forum right off the bat!!
Thank you for having it!!!! There is not enough coverage , information or
discussions about gymnastics! I have really been disappointed in our cities
papers and their sports coverage, they give plenty of attention to baseball and
football for college, high school and jr. high...why not gymnastics... as the
tee-shirt says... if gymnastics was any easier they would call it football!!!

I got into to gymnastics when I was very young about 8 - 9 years old...didn't
get very far before an accident (not anything to do with gymnastics) broke my
arm to the extreme that a I could no longer do gymnastics.....then
I got married and had a daughter that before she could even walk I knew she need
something like gymnastics.... well Anna has suprised us all. She is now 8 years
old and a level 6. She started gymnastics at age 5 and went through PreSchool
classes from 1 hour a week to now 4 days a week from 1:00pm to 5:15 pm. She
lives for the gym...eats, breaths, sleeps gymnastics! So we enjoy supporting
her and her drive to become the best that she can....So that is my story.


Michele

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 09:34:12 -0400
From: ***@ZEUS.TOWSON.EDU
Subject: Re: Brink and brief intro

If anyone could get a 10 by doing a routine perfectly just because
it had a start value of 10; there would too many tens and getting one
wouldn't mean much anymore. We would also see World-class gymnasts never
pushing their limits, and we would never see any new skills. I agree that a
clean perfect routine is important (since the end of the USSR, we have seen
far fewer than we used to). But, without difficulty between the gymnasts'
routines as a judge there would be no fair way to rank the gymnasts
in a competition.

> I watched some of the Olympic Festival today and during Heather Brink's
> floor routine one of the commentators asked if it (the score) could be
> a ten. Julianne McNamara said the the routine was clean but she thought
> it wasn't as difficult as the other competitors. Does that really
> matter? It the routine is out of a 10 and a gymnast does it perfectly
> why would it matter how difficult the other competitor's routines were?
> I was just wondering.
>
> I have been using the gymn group for a while and now I decided to
> finally write my intro:) I don't want to bore you by writing a lot
> about me so I will make this short.
> My name is Margi and have been into gymnastics since the '92
> Olympics. I don't actually take gymnastics lessons (although I am
> trying out for the high school gymnastics team next year) but I do
> gymnastics alll the time outside. My twin sister ( Mardi) and I set out
> rope for a floor exercise and do routines to music we taped off of
> competitions. We set up a vault out of old sofa cushions and a running
> trampoline. My dad make us a cool beam and we use a bar on our swing
> set.
> We have done it this way for about 3 years and love it. Our bedroom
> walls are *covered* with gymnastics posters and autographed pictures.
> We have about 20 tapes full of gymnastics competitions.
>
> I just thought I would share. Thanx!
>
> Margi :)
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 08:44:30 -0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: Re: Brink and Intro

ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT EVEN THOUGH A ROUTINE MIGHT BE PERFECT, IT
DOESN'T DSERVE A TEN EVEN THOUGH IT HAS A 10 START! Argh. I'm gonna
argue in favor of Brink's routine deserving a 10 start, because of
the same reasons I argued for Miller's floor routine. If the rules
state that she can get a 10 start using front tumbling, then she
desrves to be judged the same as someone who gets a 10 start using
back tumbling. Otherwise, you get too much into the interpreation of
rule and you have too much leeway to allow for judging idiocy.

Also read MAra's review of Belas book. :) Read it a few weeks ago.
I agree with all the facts being messed up, but Bela apparently didn't
exactly get them straight in Mary Lou's biography, either, soo...my
only complaint about the book is I think he is paranoid :) The entire
judging world is out to get he and his gymnasts, Personally, I thought
while Grivich was underscored slightly during trials optionals (was there
a major fault in her bars exercise that I missed, or was it so bad that
it deserved a 9.287) Zmeskal's scores were right in line, and Bruce was
a better athlete than Grivich anyhow. But I appreciated bela's view
on a lot of things, and he gave good insight on alot of what we discussed.

One more thing, Rachel got back to me on the newsletter. It cannot go
up with pictures on the WWW site, and I don't have a homepage, nor
the time to create one right now. So anyone who wants one is gonna have
to get a hard copy. I worked out cost, about $1.50 (straight cost, I cannt
charge more, copyright, all that). Let me know.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 10:04:05 -0400
From: ***@NETINS.NET
Subject: Children Gymnastics Books

Hi everyone. My name is Emily, and I am 11 years old. I have read the
series called "The Gymnasts" by Elizabeth Levy. I would highly recommend it.
It is about a club called the pinecones, and is talks about everything from
their first meet to their private lives (boyfriends). It is not being printed
anymore; but you can still find some copies around.


A book called "Camp Sunnyside" was about a bunch of touring gymnasts from a
country that doesn't speak English
and are staying at a summer camp for a week. The campers and the gymnasts
develop
relationships. I really enjoyed it. I recommend all these books for kids
in elementary
school.


I have read Bela's book--"Feel no Fear". I really enjoyed that. This is an
adult
level book, which talks about Bela's struggles with authority. I needed help
understanding some of it.


I am in the process of reading Kim Zmeskal's "Determination to Win". Which
I am enjoying.




Emily


P.S. If you know of any other good books please write me back.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 10:30:55 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Zmeskal's book

I definitely agree with you about Zmeskals book. I thought it was a toal
insult to my gymnastic intelligence. It gave no personal opinion about
anything (ie the relationship with Bela, the relationship with theother
gymnast, etc.) the author would have been better off just listing the facts
that she gave considering i had already heard most of those quotes anyway.
A dissapointed fan :(

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 10:16:50 -0600
From: ***@MERLE.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject: best biography / children's books?

Hi Gymners,

All this talk about KZ & Bela's books has got me wondering. What gymnast's
biography/autobiography do you think is the all-time best? I haven't read
the more recent ones, but I remember some of the older ones (e.g. Kurt
Thomas, Tracee Talavera, Nadia, Tim Daggett, Mary Lou, ...).

Anyone got a favorite? I always kinda liked Kurt Thomas's book (but maybe
that's because it was the first one I ever had).

As far as children's books go, does anyone remember reading "The Rascals
from Haskal's Gym"? It was pretty funny. I read it years ago, and I think
it is still sitting on a bookshelf at my parents' house (I couldn't bear to
get rid of it).


:) Allison

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 11:28:03 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: 1982

Dear Gymners,

As someone earlier wrote about being born in Jan of '82, Mina Kim was born
Jan 15th, which by 15 days makes her too young for Atlanta. I was also born
in Jan of '82. I have some other juniors that were born then, but I don't
have the list so i'll have to get back to you with those names.

jessica

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 09:51:31 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: pictures on WWW pages

| One more thing, Rachel got back to me on the newsletter. It cannot go
| up with pictures on the WWW site, and I don't have a homepage, nor

Just wanted to clarify for Gymners who might raise their eyebrows at
this. Since the pictures are provided by the schools (presumably
pictures from the Sports Information offices) I would be concerned
about copyright issues -- but those could/would probably be resolved
by contacting the schools and removing any pictures for which we
didn't receive permission. But another issue also is space
considerations, that is, since I (really) am in the middle of
redesigning the pages, and the redesign will include graphics, I am
hesitant to overload the site with pictures.

On a side note, I just checked out our pages and our counter is up to
over 1000 accesses since July 23rd. The counter is not even
completely accurate because it counts only the graphical hits. So
that's pretty cool.

Also, check it out, we now have a gif of Chris Lamorte next to Yang
Bo. Both on their best events (rings, beam).

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:10:59 -0400
From: ***@DELPHI.COM
Subject: Kim Zmeskal Book

Dear Gymners,

I am a fan of Kim Zmeskal, but not of the book about her. The book was
mostly just quotes from many competition interviews. The pictures were the
high point of the book! But, I still enjoyed reading the book. I'll read
anything about gymnastics!

Gymnastically yours,
David =}

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 09:18:03 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Mo Huilan

I was reading some back issues from gymn and I saw an article that was
written about Mo Huilan. In it they said that Mo had a twin sister who
also did gymnastics but only for her region. Does anyone know her name?
Just wondering :)

Margi :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 09:28:58 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Fwd: best biography / children's books?

I read a biography on Tim Dagett. It was one of my favorites. I never
knew that Kurt had one. I saw a book by Bart Conner at a store and I
want to read it but I haven't seen it since.

Margi :)

-------------------------responding to---------------------------------



Hi Gymners,

All this talk about KZ & Bela's books has got me wondering. What
gymnast's
biography/autobiography do you think is the all-time best? I haven't
read
the more recent ones, but I remember some of the older ones (e.g. Kurt
Thomas, Tracee Talavera, Nadia, Tim Daggett, Mary Lou, ...).

Anyone got a favorite? I always kinda liked Kurt Thomas's book (but
maybe
that's because it was the first one I ever had).

As far as children's books go, does anyone remember reading "The
Rascals
from Haskal's Gym"? It was pretty funny. I read it years ago, and I
think
it is still sitting on a bookshelf at my parents' house (I couldn't
bear to
get rid of it).


:) Allison

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 10:13:13 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Games

I was reading some back issues and someone said something about
computer games that had gymnastics on them. They were called Summer
Games and Summer Games II. Does anyone kow for sure if these have
gymnastics on it? Where did you get it? I own Sumeer Games II and it
doesn't have gymnastics on it.


Thanks,
Margi:)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:09:29 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Thompson

Does anyone know where I can write to Jennie Thompson? Thanx!


Margi :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 15:38:48 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Kim Young

Does anyone know what's up with Kim Young?? She competed level 10 at J.O
Nationals this year, but she was on the Junior National team in '92, '93, and
I think '94. I have no idea why she would move down a level, but it seems
that a lot of gymnasts have been doing this. Why???

jessica

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 13:07:16 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: survey

I think it would be interesting, if it is all right, to do a survey on
favorite gymnasts and more. If anyone has a problem with it tell me but
otherwise here we go:


All answers must be in by the 12the of August. I'll post the results on
the 13th.

Favorite male gymnast:

Favorite female gymnast:

Favorite rythmic:

Favorite floor choreography:

Favorite floor music:

Favorite men's team:

Favorite women's team:

Favorite rythmic team:

Favorite college team:
mens
womens

favorite leotard:

favorite hair style:

Favorite skill:

Favorite coach:

Friendliest gymnast:
male
female

Best covered competition:

Favorite event:





Send answers by private e-mail. Thanx!

Margi:)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 19:05:17 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: Temple regionals

The following are the scores for the Temple Eastern Regional
qualifiers - only 3 people were in the compulsory portion of the meet
If anyone is at any of the other meets would really like to see the
scores.
Bill Roth was on Rings when he "subflexation" occurred in his right shoulder
he was unable to complete the meet as a result, although he automatically
qualifies for the Nationals.
USA 1995 Eastern Qualifier
Philadelphia, PA McGonigle Hall August 5 - 6, 1995



Standings AA
FX PH R V PB HB Total
Tony Pansy 8750 8250 8750 9150 8100 8100 51.100 1 Penn State
Jason Katsampes 8400 9050 8400 8750 8700 7150 50.450 2 Parkettes
Bill Roth 9350 9200 6550 25.100 3 Temple



Standings FX

Bill Roth 940 930 9350
Tony Pansy 880 870 8750
Jason Katsampes 830 850 8400

Standings PH

Bill Roth 920 920 9200
Jason Katsampes 910 900 9050
Tony Pansy 810 840 8250

Standings R

Tony Pansy 880 870 8750
Jason Katsampes 830 850 8400
Bill Roth 640 670 6550

Standings V

Tony Pansy 920 910 9150
Jason Katsampes 870 880 8750

Standings PB

Jason Katsampes 860 880 8700
Tony Pansy 820 800 8100

Standings HB

Tony Pansy 800 820 8100
Jason Katsampes 700 730 7150

Mayland, Rachele & Debbie (Poe)
the optionals half-time entertainment committee and stars.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 16:24:33 -0700
From: ***@MCN.ORG
Subject: Re: best biography / children's books?

>All this talk about KZ & Bela's books has got me wondering. What gymnast's
>biography/autobiography do you think is the all-time best? I haven't read
>the more recent ones, but I remember some of the older ones (e.g. Kurt
>Thomas, Tracee Talavera, Nadia, Tim Daggett, Mary Lou, ...).
>
>Anyone got a favorite? I always kinda liked Kurt Thomas's book (but maybe
>that's because it was the first one I ever had).

>:) Allison
>
>

I never actually read Kurt's book all the way through, but all the parts I
read were about how difficult gymnastics is and how gymnasts need to train
their bodies better than other athletes. Of course gymnastics is difficult
and it takes many different types of virtuosity (strength, balance,
coordination, endurance. agility, flexibility, etc.), but the way he put it
made it sound like he felt superior to athletes in other sports. Also, as a
caption to a picture of a young Kurt doing an L-seat on rings, it said that
at the age of ten he could alreay hold an L-seat. Can't most ten-year-old
gymnasts hold an L-seat?

I have a copy of Tim Daggett's book and I like it. It is a really disturbing
story though when it gets into his injuries and especially his broken leg. I
never knew a broken leg could be such hell. It kind of makes you scared to
do gymnastics since he works so hard and constantly battles injury.

I read the book Mary Lou and Bela wrote together and it was forgettable. It
was more about being a champion than it was about gymnastics. I prefer when
they discuss what it's like to train and learn skills and what it's like to
compete. That's more what Tim's book was about.

Bye,

P.S. I've started taking a new adult gymnastics class and it's such a blast.
I wish it were every day.

Orion

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 10:11:41 -0700
From: ***@VPL.VANCOUVER.BC.CA
Subject: Re: Gymnastics books

Has anybody else on this list ever read a book called "The Fortunate Few"
by Tim Kennemore (Faber & Faber [U.K], 1981, ISBN: 0571117325) It's
probably out of print by now, but you might be able to locate a library copy.

Here's a brief summary from the dust jacket:

Gymnastics has replaced football as Britain's favourite
spectator sport, and the gymnasts are young girls who reach
their peak at fourteen and are past it two years later.

Many people do well out of this situation, but the gymnasts
themselves are rarely among them. Too young, and sometimes
too silly, to defend or even understand their own interests,
they are bullied by their trainers, cheated by their managers,
often exploited by their parents ...

Following certain trends of present-day society to their logical
conclusion ... Kennemore arrives at a view of the future that is
funny and more than a little alarming.

The book centers around 14 year old Jodie Bell, a gymnast whose only
concern is looking out for number one, and who seems incapable of
entering any situation without sizing it up to see how she can profit
from it. Other gymnasts develop eating disorders, are forced to train
and compete when injured, and are cruelly dropped from the team when
their coaches feel they can no longer produce.

This is obviously intended as a satire, and as such it succeeds
reasonably well. The author doesn't know much about gymnastics, but seen
from the far side of the Christy Henrich, Adriana Giurca or Hwang Bo Sil
incidents, he seems oddly prescient.

Anyway, read the book if you get a chance. It might be hard to find, but
I recommend it.

Lorraine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 19:58:17 -0400
From: ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: TV coverage

With another US Championship coming up, and thinking about last
week's brief thread about USOF TV coverage, I'll ask again what people would
like to see done for their gymn TV coverage...how much to get in, too
much/too little commentary (and by who), how to show more competitors, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 19:06:13 -0500
From: ***@VIPER.NET
Subject: Re: TV coverage

I think they should not talk as much during these girls routines...they seem to
talk and sometimes in my opinion they are too critical and I would like to see
some of these has beens up there doing the stunts the girls today do!!!!


Michele

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 01:34:37 BST
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Gymnastics books

> Has anybody else on this list ever read a book called "The Fortunate
> Few" by Tim Kennemore

I have got this book and it really is very unrealistic (at least by
today's standards). They talk about gymnastics girls only care about
money and fame and there are all sorts of unbelievable stuff such
as "gymnastics hooligans" when spectators stab each other with knives
during "matches" (they've set up a professional gymnastics league).

The worst bit is towards the end when during a match as one of the girls
was injured and tired, but the coach still insisted on her going on the
beam and tried out her big dismount. She did, but she messed up the
dismount and hit her head on the beam and collapsed. The manager of the
team came up to the coach and asked how it was, the coach replied that
it was alright, since she had done enough with her exercise that their
team had won the match! The girl died...

Right at the end, the main character, who was a team mate of the dead
girl, was offered a large sum of money to keep this matter secret (the
fact that the coach forced the girl onto the beam which caused her
death), and she accepted the money!

I think this is not a good book at all (to put it mildly) and I'm glad
that people can't readily get it now in the bookshops since any young
girl who want to be in gymnastics will certainly think twice if they
believe anything that is written in this book! It's got an innocent
enough cover and title "The Fortunate Few"... it should belong in the
crime/fantasy section!

Sherwin

------------------------------

End of GYMN-L Digest - 4 Aug 1995 to 5 Aug 1995
***********************************************