GYMN-L Digest - 6 Feb 1996 to 7 Feb 1996

There are 15 messages totalling 539 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Kristie Phillips
2. GYMN-L Digest - 5 Feb 1996 to 6 Feb 1996
3. R'n'R challenge
4. Kristie Philips
5. UB Transitions.
6. Information from Russia
7. UB Transitions and Kristie
8. Peachtree and other tv
9. Kristie and UB transtions moves.
10. Kristie Phillips etc
11. Huston sues Minnesota
12. UB Transitions (2)
13. summer camp
14. GYMN-L Digest - 3 Feb 1996 to 4 Feb 1996

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:23:58 -0500
From: ***@EAGLE.LHUP.EDU
Subject: Re: Kristie Phillips

If this is true, perhaps a nicely worded letter to 60 Minutes from her
couldn't hurt.

Julie

> Looks like a little money can make people say amazing things:
>
> This weekend Kristie Phillips gave a speech at the opening ceremony
> of a competition in New York, and among other things, she said how
> "fabulous" a sport gymnastics is, what great lessons is teaches you,
> and then she went on to describe how she trained with "the INFAMOUS
> Bela Karolyi." She said that everyone asks her if he's mean and that
> she always says that he's not mean, he's just very demanding and expects
> nothing but the best from all his athletes. She then had the audience
> give him a round of applause for all of the hard work that he's done for
> our country, and for the bad rap that he's gotten from the press.
>
> Hmmmmmm. Think she's reconsidering how bad a sport gymnastics really
> is after she cashed the prize money check from Reeses??
>

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:58:47 -0500
From: ***@FREENET.COLUMBUS.OH.US
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 5 Feb 1996 to 6 Feb 1996

Looking for the name/source of Lilia Podkapa......'s music....

email privately if this has been answered to death....

Thanks!

Mary

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:47:23 -0400
From: ***@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU
Subject: R'n'R challenge

I just found out that my VCR ate my tape of the Rock 'n' Roll competition and I
haven't gotten to watch it yet. I was just wondering if anyone could possibly
lend me a copy or if I could send someone a blank tape to copy it?? Any other
suggestions would be welcome, money for mailing, ect. would not be an issue.
Thanks alot, please email me privately.
LeeAnne

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:11:36 -0500
From: ***@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU
Subject: Re: Kristie Philips

Just a few things to say about Kristie. Like many other people, she was
my favorite American gymnast in the mid 80's and I remember crying as I
watched the Olympic Trials in 1988. I also had the experience of having
her as a camp counselor. I found her to be very nice and friendly.
However, I also recall hearing her throw up in the bathroom. To be fair, she
could have just been sick-I don't really know. As for the negative
comments she has made about the sport-can you really blame her? Only she
knows the hell she really went through and I personally respect her for her
courage in speaking out. I also think that by remaining involved in the
sport she is sending out a very positive message that even for someone
who has seen first hand the dark side of gymnastics, there is still
something good to be gotten out of it. And if she makes a few bucks in
the process-more power to her!!!!

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:28:18 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: UB Transitions.

Well, I just wanted to point out that jokingly I had posted that the
FIG should BAN the stand on the low bar and jump to regrasp the
high bar from International Elite Competition. Well, if you'll recall,
THE GREAT PD did this in her routine at Sabae which won a silver medal.
I just wanted to point this out because some gymnast are getting away with this
cheap transition and if your good enough to be world champ, perhaps you
are good enough to do something creative.


Jeff

Still Flame-proof!

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:55:30 -0800
From: ***@ENG.SUN.COM
Subject: Information from Russia

"On behalf of Gymnastics Federation of Novgorod region and Novgorod =
Gymnastics
Club I would like to inform you about International Gymnastics Clubs =
Tournament
=94The Cup of Buratino (Pinokkio)=94and about some of our international =
plans for=20
1996.
The International Gymnastics Clubs Tournament =94The Cup of Buratino
(Pinokkio)=94was organised on 15-17th December 1995 at the Sport Centre =
of
Novgorod. About 100 boys and girls from England, Germany, Estonia, =
Lithveniya,
Moscow, Sent-Petersburg, Jaroslavl, Vladivostok(!) and others Russian =
GymClubs
took part. Elena Shushunova, Olympic and World champion was the head =
referee.
The Tournament was opened by the Mayor of Novgorod. The prise money was =
provided
by regional and city Administrations and biggest companies of Novgorod =
region.
Member of Russian national team Dmitriy Lvov and Vera Smirnova (both =
from
Novgorod) were winners in individual competition. First place for the =
mix-teams
competitions - boys from England and S-Petersburg, girls from Jaroslavl, =
Moscow,
Vilnius. The participators of coaches competition were 15 coaches =
(mr.Trevor Low
- the editor of British national gymnastics magazine =94The Gymnast=94 =
between=20
them).
Elena Shushunova with 1,5 front on the vault (9.7) took 1st place.
Closing ceremony was organised in the restaurant situated in the highest =
tower
of the Novgorod Kremlin.
The cultural program with visits to S-Petersburg, museums, Russian =
families was
very interesting. All the guests were impressed of organisation of this =
Cup and
hospitality of Novgorodians.
We would like to continue The Cup of Buratino. Russian State Sports =
Committee=20
has
put down this event to the National Gymnastics Calendar 1996, =
sponsorship of the
Cup will provide by regional and city Administrations and biggest =
companies.
GymClubs from England, Wells, Scotland, South Africa, Finland, Holland, =
Germany,
and many Russian clubs already want to participate in Buratino-96. And I =
would
like to invite all of gymnastics clubs to take part in the next =
Tournament!
As you can see below, in the very simple rules, everybody can =
participate -
from beginners to Elite.
The Cup of Buratino (Pinokkio)
Technical rules
Dates - 13-15 December 1996
Location - Sport Centre, Novgorod, Russia
Participators - boys from 10 y.o. and older, girls from 9 y.o. and older
Programme:
13.12. 96. - arriving, training, coaches and judges meeting
14.12. 96. - individual competition, 10.00 - 2nd boys and girls groups, =
13.00 -=20
1st boys and girls group
15.12. 96. - mix-team and coaches competition, show
Individual competition
1st boys group - any 4 apparatus - 1B competition(optional exercises), =
F.I.G.=20
code the points
2nd boys group - any 3 apparatus - 3B5A, from 10,0, without special =
requirements=20
(vault + 1,0)
1st girls group - any 3 apparatus - 1B competition(optional exercises), =
F.I.G.=20
code the points (just one vault)
2nd girls group - any 2 apparatus - 3B5A, from 9,4, without special =
requirements
At the same time will compete just one gymnast. An information about=20
competitions apparatus has to be
provided not late then 13.12.96.
Mix-teams competition
Team consist of 4 gymnasts (1 gymnast from each group) independly from=20
nationality
and club. Difficult of exercises- as in individual competition. All the
participators will start on any one apparatus.
Coach+gymnast competition
The pears can be assembled arbitrary, independly from age, nationality =
and club.
Both, coach and gymnast will start on the same apparatus just one time. =
Coaches
can take rise for the age.
Awards - trophies for 1st, 2nd and 3rd places in each group in =
individual=20
competition. Teams trophies for
1st, 2nd and 3rd places in mix-teams. Trophies for 1st, 2nd and 3rd =
places in=20
coaches+gymnast
competition. Special gifts for all the coaches, who will participate.
Expenses - All the expenses for transport, accommodation and food for =
the
account of guests. Trophies and other competitions payments - Novgorod=20
gymnastics
club.(As an exception we can provide accommodation, transport from =
S-Petersburg
and food for foreign GymClubs for our account)
Please, send confirmation soon as possible.
More information about competition contact:
Dmitriy Trofimov
App. 32 Kochetova str.27
Novgorod, 173025 Russia
Tel. (81622) 53838,75760 ; Fax (8162) 621400
E-mail address: root@gymclub.nov.su
Calendar of Novgorod GymClub 1996 (International)
GymCamp for gymnasts from Finland - 2 weeks in February, Novgorod
International Tournament Worlds Stars-96 - 30.03.96, Moscow
Training camp and coaching - 3 weeks April, Finland and England
International Tournament - April, abroad
European Mans Championship - 9-12.05.96, Copenhagen
European Women=94s Championship - 16-19.05.96, Birmingham
GymCamp for gymnasts from USA - 2 weeks June, Novgorod
Training camp and coaching - 4 weeks August, Finland and England
International Tournament - November, abroad
International Tournament The Cup of Buratino (Pinokkio) - 13-15th =
December,=20
Novgorod

If you have any suggestions regarding joint gymnastics practice and=20
international tournaments yourself, please do not hesitate to make them =
known
to me.=20

-Dimitry

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:22:46 +0600
From: ***@ZGS.COM
Subject: Re: UB Transitions and Kristie

> I just wanted to point this out because some gymnast are getting away with
this
> cheap transition and if your good enough to be world champ, perhaps you
> are good enough to do something creative.

Maybe they should ban the double leg jam while they're at it. I'm sick
of seeing that and it's not creative, either.


About Kristie... I know that this borders on rumor, but this is according
to a couple of people I know that worked with Kristie and other National Team
Members: They said that at the Olympic Trials, Kristie was told by a judge
*BEFORE* the meet that she was not going to the Olympics. They had already
decided. In addition, they held another meet in private after the Trials
to rank the remaining competitors. Kristie was among the ones that should
have gone, but they decided not to use those rankings and to pass her up.
I can understand that she might feel angry with a sport that she worked so
diligently at; and after proving herself, having those that supported her
efforts a year ago turn their backs to her.
I don't know how much of the Olympic Trials story is true, but I do know
that Kristie has a right to be angry about the way she was received at the
Trials. She was clearly underscored and unappreciated. Because she had
gained weight? It would be easy for her to interpret it that way. If she
had an eating disorder, I can't say I'd be surprised.
I'm not saying that all the moaning that she did about the sport is right.
But people seem to think that is was completely unfounded. It was not.
And look at Kim Kelly when she was picked over. She was just as bad. But
everyone seemed to be sorry for her.
One last note. A heard a quip from an Olympic Judge who said how stupid
the United States was to leave one of their best gymnasts [Kristie] at
home. At the very least, Kristie had the international exposure to bring
some scores home.


Flame away!
Troy

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:23:56 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Peachtree and other tv

is the peachtree classic going to be on tv? when? is there anything else
coming up that i should know about?
Thanks,
Liz

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:52:42 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Kristie and UB transtions moves.

Just for the record, I meant the GREAT POD uses that cheap jump from
standing on the low bar to the high. If my rules were in effect (see original
post) she'd be the target of lots of people's shot guns sitting in the stands.


AS for Kristie, I know that there are two sides for this story. Yes, she may
have been "abandoned" by her 1987 supporters, but I doubt that she was really
"under- appreciated" You really have to look back and look at that meet and
take everything in perspective. (1) Why couldn't she do better? Why did she
have to slam the door shut on herself on FX by hopping out of bounds
on a simple double twist dismount? WAs it just nerves? I doubt it. (2) As
for this 'seasoned' international professional, Karolyi's Cup does not
give you international appeal, unless you are NOT from the US. She did
HORRIBLE in Rotterdam and at the other few meets she attended that were
actual INternationals outside of the US *PRIOR* (i.e., 1-2 yrs) prior
to the Olympic Trials. And third and MOST IMPORTANT BECAUSE SINGLE PERSON
WHO LOOKS BACK AT 1988 FORGETS ABOUT THE FACT: Other gymnasts who had better
shots at the trials (Mar, Yamishiro, et al) had to withdraw. Kristie BITCHED
and MOANED about how she was only a few thousands away, but she was VERY
lucky to be 8th place. If that would have been a healthy bunch of gymnasts
at that meet, she might not have made the top twelve.


I for one am sick of this poor Kristie business. You never heard her complain
about the suffering or what she was 'doing to her body' with those deep
reverse planches while she was winning. She's just a sore loser and I guess
that even Mary Lou would have to say now "You only hear them complain until
they can make money off the sport."


Sorry for the B-word above, but I am just so sick and tired of all the
fuss made over Kristie. People don't talk about how Rhonda Faehn was
ripped off anymore, nor do they talk about how Phoebe Mills was often the
better gymnast in the early years but always had to take a second seat to
Phillips.

Jeff


Still flame-proof and loving it.

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:54:01 +0000
From: ***@IGC.APC.ORG
Subject: Kristie Phillips etc

I, too, found it "odd" to see Phillips (and Stack) re-appear, and
rolled my eyes at Phillips' pro-Bela speech (seems like it would
have sounded contrived coming out of anyone's mouth). But I want to
sound a note of discomfort with the sentiment I read underlying some
comments that by criticizing the sport--albeit inartfully or irresponsibly--
someone forfeits her "right" to participate in it, whether for money,
honor, affection or whatever else people are willing to offer in return
for gymnastics. I like the idea of a gymnastics community bonded by a
love of the sport (and find hints of blatant commercialism or
opportunism unsavory); but it's obviously not that rosy, and I'd hate to
enforce a party line that pretends we're all one happy family.
I think it's a question of perspective--is it "bad-mouthing" or
"whistle-blowing," whining or critiquing, personal gripes or systemic
problems? I think it's an incredibly difficult line to police. And
while in this case the more negative characterizations just may be
accurate, I'm pretty willing to shrug that off out of fear that the
alternative is that legitimate criticisms might otherwise be swept
under the rug (to be clear, I didn't think anyone was advocating
ignoring problems, but it seems like a danger to me).

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:23:00 MST
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Huston sues Minnesota

Some of you may remember that back in February of 1994, Kerry Huston,
University of Minnesota, landed on his head on his pbars dismount at the
Winter Cup. He suffered a spinal cord injury and was temporarily paralyzed
(now recovered).

Huston has filed suit against University of Minnesota on the basis that he
was allowed to compete even though he had a hand injury that had not
completed healed. The lawsuit says that his injured hand gave out, which is
what caused him to fall and land on his head.

The lawsuit accuses Fred Roethlisberger (head coach) and James House
(university doctor) of negligence. Per the AP, House said that "[Huston]
had a minimally displaced hand fracture. It was his choice to compete in
Colorado. I feel no responsibility whatsoever because of the level of
healing achieved. He had healed."

Huston is seeking compensation for "physical and emotional pain, future
medical costs and the loss of 'his future career as a gymnast, professional
athlete and celebrity,' according to the lawsuit" (according to AP).

Gymners can read about the accident in the 94.02.07-#71 digest (Volume 2).

# # #

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:27:55 PST
From: ***@EPIX.NET
Subject: Re: UB Transitions

The reasons gymnasts use a squat on to go from low bar to high bar and
don't have more creative transitions is:

1. Low bar to high bar transitions aren't worth anything. So you
can't spend time in the gym working on a skill that doesn't get any
credit. Expecally If you have other skills to work on that are worth
something in your routine.

2. A squat on is a consistent skill that has few deductions. If
you do a jam you can get the deduction for bent knees when you push off
the low bar. Jams are also less consistent. In a meet you don't want to
mess up on an easy bar transition.

3. It is hard for many gymnast because of there size to catch the
high bar.

4. Other than squat on, double leg jams, straddle jams and a
piked backward circle to a standing position I don't know of any other
transitions to high bar.

5. In all of the compulsory routines (USAG) the only transition
that is used is a squat on. So when a gymnast turns optional that is the
only bar transition that they know how to do.

On Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:22:46 +0600 Troy Ristow wrote:
>> I just wanted to point this out because some gymnast are getting away
with
> this
>> cheap transition and if your good enough to be world champ, perhaps
you
>> are good enough to do something creative.
>
> Maybe they should ban the double leg jam while they're at it. I'm
sick
>of seeing that and it's not creative, either.
>
>

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:35:37 -0500
From: ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: UB Transitions

On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Quinn wrote:

> The reasons gymnasts use a squat on to go from low bar to high bar and
> don't have more creative transitions is:
>
> 1. Low bar to high bar transitions aren't worth anything. So you
> can't spend time in the gym working on a skill that doesn't get any
> credit. Expecally If you have other skills to work on that are worth
> something in your routine.

Some transitions are worth something -- for example, a Shaposhnikova is a
C (I anxiously await the day someone throws a Shaposhnikova directly to a
Hindorff -- has anyone seen this?).

> 4. Other than squat on, double leg jams, straddle jams and a
> piked backward circle to a standing position I don't know of any other
> transitions to high bar.

Try: cast straddle over the lb; back hip circle hecht; free hip hecht;
free hip hecht 1/2; the one where the gymnast does about 3/4 of a free hip,
releases and catches the hb; toe-on catch hb; same with 1/2 twist;
a 3/4 giant on the lb facing hb, release and end with a sort
of pull over on the hb; Shaposhnikova (out of free hip or stalder);
Brause; straddled front somi over the lb to catch the hb (maybe handspring
is a better way to describe it). Granted, some of these won't work too
well for the shorter gymnasts, and some tend to slow down swing, but
there are certainly more than just the four.

> 5. In all of the compulsory routines (USAG) the only transition
> that is used is a squat on. So when a gymnast turns optional that is the
> only bar transition that they know how to do.

By that logic, the only skills of any kind a gymnast knows how to do on any
event are the ones in the compulsories.

In any case, I think we know *why* they do them. The point was that
they're ugly.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 02:04:51 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: summer camp

Wow, I can't believe they would allow a counselor at a camp working with
younger kids to be like this! I went to camp at Oregon State University
foor the past two summers, and the team members are the counselors. They are
ssoooooo nice! It's a blast. I'm surprised a counsellor like Kristie would
be allowed into the camp!

Andrea

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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 02:05:07 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 3 Feb 1996 to 4 Feb 1996

Collegiat Update 1/30
Vs Minnesota, Nikki Peters and Heather Kabnick failed to complete their floor
routines due to injuries. Lisa Simes found herself nursing a stress fracture
in her shin. Kristin Duff has a sore shoulder. Autumn Donati has two broken
toes.

WOW! They are falling apart! With a stress fracture in your shin, what do
you all think the estimated time to be fully recovered and competing again
is? I had one two years ago and it was horrible. It took me all seaon to
recover and I didn't get to compete in a single meet. Will she compete again
this season?

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 6 Feb 1996 to 7 Feb 1996
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