GYMN-L Digest - 7 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 23 messages totalling 630 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. European Individuals (5)
2. Moceanu
3. U.S. Team in event finals past
4. Olympic Trials
5. Commentators Compared (3)
6. Beam compulsories at Trials
7. Article in People
8. WAG: EUROPEANS on WWoS.
9. PREDICTIONS
10. CHINESE CHAMPIONSHIPS - MEN'S AA
11. AVAILABLE MEN'S OLYMPIC TICKETS
12. USAIG Champs on TV!
13. Europeans TV coverage
14. Larissa Fontaine's dismount (2)
15. Dawes on MTV/good Oprah show
16. Olympic Television Ratings

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:31:15 -0400
From: ***@COMET.NET
Subject: European Individuals

Does anybody else wonder how Podkopayeva could have possibly tied with
Khorkina? Pod had three visible form breaks: a leg separation in her full
twist, legs apart in her gienger (as always) and a bad landing. Plus she
didn't even try for the handstand on the transition down to the low bar.

The way I saw it was: 1) Khorkina, 2) Amanar, 3) Podkopayeva. I only saw
the televised ones, though, so who knows about the others.

Was Khorkina judged out of a 9.9 or something?

The vault and beam results looked right. But on floor, again, how in the
world was Podkopayeva better than Kochetkova?

I saw it as: 1) Kochetkova, 2) Milosovichi, 3) Podkopayeva. Seriously, was
Kochetkova judged out of a 9.9? I mean, Pod messed up slightly on three out
of four landings and Kochetkova was absolutely beautiful.

Is Podkopayeva the new Cinderella that can do no wrong?

Eaffie

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 12:08:00 EDT
From: ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Moceanu

Laura--I think you got your Dominiques messed up. Moceanu didn't attend
the 1996 Worlds, and Dawes won the bronze on beam.

To all you Moceanu fans, myself included--no one is ripping Dom Moc
apart. No one is saying she doesn't DESERVE to be on the team--she's
worked really hard and in the past has gotten results. If she is healed
enough to compete, I am all for it. As a gymnast whose career was ended
really early by injury, of course I am worried about the same happening
to Dom. But if her leg can hold up I think she should be in Atlanta. I
think some people have taken my previous posts as anti-Moceanu and that
is certainly not the case.

:) Joy

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 12:57:10 -0400
From: ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: U.S. Team in event finals past

Kerri Strug made vault finals at both the 1992 and 1993 Worlds.

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 13:00:49 -0400
From: ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Olympic Trials

Earlier this month, I said that Moceanu should not be going to Atlanta.
My reaction was based on the fact it did not look like she would heal
from a "4-inch" stress fracture in time, and that she should not push
it.

In some respect, I still agree with that statement, but I have to agree
with Laura here and say she has EARNED the right to compete, if she is
healthy. She is an excellent gymnast in the compulsories, plus she can
really add depth to at least three events and possibly four if she can
pull that Pak Salto together. She is a good gymnast (if a little over-
rated sometimes), and really, if you put her and Theresa Kulikowski side
by side, MOceanu really has her on every event.

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 13:02:47 -0400
From: ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Commentators Compared

Elfi Schlegel is a former gymnast from Canada. I believe she was
nationals champion at least one year, though I may be wrong, and
was featured in "The Yong Gymnasts," by Lyn Moran, along with Karen
Kelsall and Monica Goermann.

If you want some results on her, look throgh the GYMN archives on
the WWW page. It has some World Cup stuff I know she competed in.

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 13:15:25 -0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM
Subject: Re: Beam compulsories at Trials

Jordynn wrote, in reply to Dana:
>>At the women's compulsories I noticed that during balance beam some women
>>mounted from one end of the beam and others from the opposite end. Since
>>it is
>>a compulsory routine I thought they would all start in the same place. Is
>>there
>>any particular reason for this? Is it simply a matter of left-handed vs
>>right-handed?
>>
>>The same thing happened on pommel horse for men.
>>
>>Dana
>>
>I think they can start from either side. I noticed that in the Canadian
>trials the girls started at different ends. In the floor exercise, also,
>the girls started at different corners. I don't think it makes a difference.
>Depending on where the judges are sitting, maybe the gymnast will
>choose where to start so they can perform their better skills
>closer to the judges? Just an idea.
>
>Jordynn

Yes, reversals in turning direction and starting point for compulsories are
left up to the gymnast's discretion. Unlike compulsories (dances, skills*)
in figure skating, the gymnast can follow their natural turning direction
and take-off leg and co-ordinate the facing of the judges or audience.
Sometimes coaches will cleverly use the facing direction to highlight
skills done exceptionally well or hide skills done without full extension
or amplitude. Look at the tour jete on the women's floor compulsory, for
example. Some girls do it turning to face the judges so they can't see a
lack of 180-degree split of the legs.

These "options" certainly make compulsories more interesting to watch, IMHO.

* I'm doing compulsory ice dances and just started learning the new
Canadian figure skating Skills programs (these replace compulsory figures
:*) ) which specify which foot and turning direction must be used. Most
things have to be done against my natural turning direction, and I don't
have the option to reverse it. Mind you, compulsory ice dances are WAY
easier to do than the 1996 compulsory gymnastics routines.. ;*}

BTW, I still am not convinced that handedness has anything to do with
turning direction.

Regards,

Grace

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:36:25 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Article in People

Someone said that there was an article in
People about Kim. Kim who? Please answer....

Laura

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 14:00:27 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: WAG: EUROPEANS on WWoS.

Could someone tell me the start value of Dina's FX routine. It
was given a 9.8 and I was wondering if it was out of a 10 or a 9.9.

It was:L


RO-FF-Double layout
FRONT HANDSPRING FRONT FULL PUNCH FRONT LAYOUT
front handspring rudi-ff stepout
RO-FF-piked full-in.

She also did a shushunova and a Popa (excellent form!) I may have missed a
nother connection/dance move.


BTW: I don't dislike milo's routine as much as before. She did it well
in finals I think the crowd liked it.

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 21:16:36 PDT
From: ***@AMDAHL.CO.ZA
Subject: Re: Commentators Compared

Hi,

Thought I'd just comment on this comparison of NBC and ESPN, seeing
as I haven't even seen any US Trials here.
The ESPN coverage (with Kathy Johnson and Bob V?) seems a lot more
positive, pointing out the good points of the gymnasts, not just
the mistakes. Kathy seems like a pretty good commentator, to me.

Just my little bit,
Helen. :)

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 05:22:25 +1000
From: ***@JCU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Commentators Compared

Elfi Schegal was a Canadian gymnast in the late seventies, I think she was
an Olympian, maybe some Canadian GYmners can provide some more detail.
regards
sharyn

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 20:19:34 GMT
From: ***@COMPUSMART.AB.CA
Subject: PREDICTIONS

>1. Which three teams, in your opinion, will win the medals in Atlanta
> (in order)?


1) Romania
2) United States
3) China


>2. Which ten gymnasts would you expect to place in the top ten in the
> all-around?


1) Lilia Podkopayeva
2) Dominique Dawes
3) Svetlana Boguinskaya
4) Lavinia Milosovici
5) Shannon Miller
6) Svetlana Khorkina
7) Gina Gogean
8) Mo Huilan
9) Simona Amanar
10) Dominique Moceanu


>3. Who do you think will place in the top three for each of the four/six
> event finals?


VAULT UNEVEN BARS BEAM FLOOR
----------- ------------ ------------- -------------
*********** ************ ************* *************
----------- ------------ ------------- -------------
1) Gogean 1) Khorkina 1) Huilan 1) Milosovici
2) Amanar 2) Dawes 2) Dawes 2) Miller
3) Piskoun 3) Amanar 3) Boguinskaya 3) Gogean


>4. Who are your three favourite "elite" gymnasts a) of all time, and b)
> presently competing.


a) Svetlana Boguinskaya
b) Svetlana Boguinskaya (of course!)


TO EVERYONE ON THE DIGESTS: All of this is IMHO. Feel free to tell me if
you think I missed someone important, which I probably did. No flames please.




--CHRIS

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 16:07:51 EDT
From: ***@COMPUSERVE.COM
Subject: CHINESE CHAMPIONSHIPS - MEN'S AA

7-12 June 1996, Wuhan

Men's AA

1. Li Xiao Shang 116.500
2. Fan Bin 115.000
3. Zhang Jing Jing 114.800
4. Li Jing 114.050
5. Shen Jian 114.000
6. Huang Hua Dong 113.850
7= Fan Hong Bin 113.825
7= Zheng Liang 113.825

With regards,
L

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 17:05:52 -0400
From: ***@TSO.CIN.IX.NET
Subject: AVAILABLE MEN'S OLYMPIC TICKETS

A friend of mine has several men's event tickets that are not going to be
used and asked me to post them here for sale. She would like to sell
them at cost, but will take best offer for them. Here is what's available:

July 20 Men's team compulsory 9:00 session, 12:00 session, and 4:00 session
2 tickets available
for each session

July 22 Men's team optional 9:00 session, 12:00 session, and 4:00 session
2 tickets available for each session
July 22 Men's team final 4:00 session
2 tickets available

July 28 Men's Indv. event final for FX, PH and Rings

Please E-mail me back privately if you are interested in purchasing any
of these tickets.

Liz B.

P.S. I made a mistake, July 22 4:00 sessions are the same thing, so I
only have two tickets available. Sorry about that.

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 17:49:42 -0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject: Re: European Individuals

I saw the european event finals as one of the worst scored events in the
world.
Khorkina was way underscored and it was because she went up first. I
thought podkopayeva had a great floor ex. and I really didn't like
kochetkova's. However, yesterday, dina was better than pod, and scored
have been scored accordingly.
No, I don't think podkopayeva is the new cinderella, I think she is
simpoly the best gymnast around.
AND IF ACROKID HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS HE CAN KEEP IT TO HIMSELF. IS SHE
THE NEXT BEEFCAKE AND PIG? OR DO YOU LIMIT THAT TO BOGI AND KIM.
I AM SORRY FOR THIS AND I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE WRITING THIS. BUT I HAVE
NEVER HEARD ANYONE CALL BOGINSKAYA THE BELORUSSIAN BEEFCAKE AND KIM, AN
OBESE PIG.
Alisa

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 18:26:43 -0400
From: ***@FREENET.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: USAIG Champs on TV!

I turned on Empire sports network at 6:00 Sunday, and the program for the
USAIGC champs finishes up as I watch the commentators summerize. Can
anyone check the Prime sports page and see when this will be shown? All
the people with cable in NY state get both Empire Sports Network and
Madison Square Garden. I just have to hope its on,.

BTW, there is a prime Olympic Oddessy Monday afternoon and nite. Could
this be it again? (pleasse, please, please :)

Please email with answers- I get the digest and will recieve it too late!

Jillyan

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 18:32:07 -0400
From: ***@AI.MIT.EDU
Subject: Europeans TV coverage

I spaced and only caught the last 10 minutes of the Europeans (I think
that's what it was) taped coverage yesterday. If anyone would be willing to
loan me their videotape I'd gladly reimburse your postage and send it back
promptly.

--Robyn

p.s. for those who remember me from my more active days and are interested
in a personal update, Ryan is now 2.75 yrs. old and my second son, Matthew
Michael, was born 3 weeks ago (Father's day)!

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 18:00:33 -0400
From: ***@FOX.NSTN.CA
Subject: Re: European Individuals

Eaffie wrote:

"The vault and beam results looked right. But on floor, again, how in the
world was Podkopayeva better than Kochetkova?"

Kochetkova's tumbling is good enough but IMO, there is far too much
standing around and not a whole lot happening on the choreography side. I
think that this is where the difference lies.

Leslie

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 19:34:22 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Larissa Fontaine's dismount

hi,
Someone mentioned that Larissa Fontaine had a signature dismount off the
uneven bars. Seeing as some how I've managed to NEVER have see Larissa on
tv, can someone describe to me what it is?
Thanks,
Liz

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 20:15:34 -0500
From: ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: Dawes on MTV/good Oprah show

While I was flipping channels this afternoon I caught a segment
called "Athletes Who Rock the World" on MTV. The one I saw featured
Dominique Dawes. They would show a couple words across the screen and
then Dawes would respond to the subject while they showed clips of
her. I caught half of the segment on tape and I'm posting a couple
quotes from it:

"...the bars"
DD- "That's a pretty strong event for me. I have a really good
release in that routine and my dismount is pretty strong." As she
said "really good release" they showed her doing her transition from
low to high bad (I'm not sure what it's called) which I thought was
kind of interesting, because while it is a "really good release" she
does have an even better one.

"...the floor"
DD- My routine's a combination of fun and a little bit of dance as
well. I just really enjoy doing it and I try to perform to the crowd
when I'm at competitions for it." In the background were clips of her
newest routine, mostly dancing.

"Barcelona '92"
DD- "Going to the arena for the competition was a really memorable
experience for me and also the team because there were so many people
in the stands cheering for all of us and we got really excited and
pumped up." They chose to show her Hindorff during this part rather
than the part about her bar routine.

Overall it was a well done and very positive piece. I hope it will be
shown often as the Olympics get closer.

Last week I saw what I think was the second of 2 episodes of "Oprah"
that dealt with the Olympics. On the show that I saw she had the USA
Rhythmic Group Team perform one of their routines. For this routine
they used the hoop and got a standing ovation from the audience.
After the routine, one gymnast talked to Oprah for a few seconds
about the routine, saying that they had to modify it because the
ceiling was too low. Next, 3 other rhythmic gymnasts came out and
demonstrated a few things while one of the gymnasts from the Group
Team narrated. One of the three girls demonstrated the ribbon and
did some flexibility moves with it, another girl demonstrated the
ball and the last girl demonstrated 3 different leaps. Can someone
explain (by e-mail if you want) the Rhythmic Group event (if that's
even what it's called)? Does each team only prepare one routine? Is
there a specific apparatus they have to use for it?

Sara

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 20:48:30 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Larissa Fontaine's dismount

Larissa Fontaine's Dismount was added after the 1994 World Championships.
It is #8.409. It is described as follows--Handstand on High Bar-swing down
between both bars, swing forward to salto backward tucked with 1/2 twist into
salto forward(D)

Myra
MD State JudgingDirector

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 18:28:29 -0700
From: ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: European Individuals

> Does anybody else wonder how Podkopayeva could have possibly tied with
> Khorkina [on UB]?
> Was Khorkina judged out of a 9.9 or something?

Only Boginskaya was scored from a 9.9 on bars; everyone else started from
10. Khorkina had the most original, cleanest routine and I agree with you
that she should have taken 1st place by herself. Being first up certainly
hurt her. For what it's worth, though, the Latvian judge gave her 9.95.
I also thought that Khorkina was the best vaulter in EF since she was the
only one who stuck both landings.

> But on floor, again, how in the
> world was Podkopayeva better than Kochetkova?
> I saw it as: 1) Kochetkova, 2) Milosovichi, 3) Podkopayeva. Seriously,
> was Kochetkova judged out of a 9.9?

All the FX medalists (and Galieva) had start values of 10. Boginskaya
started from a 9.9, and Amanar and Piskun started from 9.8.

Debbie

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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 21:30:38 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: European Individuals

>Does anybody else wonder how Podkopayeva could have possibly tied with
>Khorkina? Pod had three visible form breaks: a leg separation in her full
>twist, legs apart in her gienger (as always) and a bad landing. Plus she
>didn't even try for the handstand on the transition down to the low bar.
>
>The way I saw it was: 1) Khorkina, 2) Amanar, 3) Podkopayeva. I only saw
>the televised ones, though, so who knows about the others.
>
>Was Khorkina judged out of a 9.9 or something?

I think the judges goofed on this one. Khorkina was first up,
so the judges were, of course, conservative and gave her
9.825. Then, they gave Milosovici a 9.8 on her solid, but
not spectacular routine. Next was Amanar, who was
better than Milo but not as good as Khorkina. The judges
had no place to put Amanar! They gave her a 9.825 also (I think
it should have been something like 9.816). As for Podkopaeva,
who knows?

Khorkina looked visibly upset when she got her score. She
couldn't have been happy with the end result!

>
>The vault and beam results looked right. But on floor, again, how in the
>world was Podkopayeva better than Kochetkova?
>
>I saw it as: 1) Kochetkova, 2) Milosovichi, 3) Podkopayeva. Seriously, was
>Kochetkova judged out of a 9.9? I mean, Pod messed up slightly on three out
>of four landings and Kochetkova was absolutely beautiful.
>
>Is Podkopayeva the new Cinderella that can do no wrong?
>
I agree. Although Pod's expression and musicality were, as
always, delightful, she did have a few mistakes. Dina was
technically better, even if she is not quite as expressive
as Lilia. Milo was also solid.

How much do judges consider the gymnast's musicality and
presence on floor ex? Is it part of the score or does it
just contribute to the overall impression?

Jordynn


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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 19:45:22 CST
From: ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject: Olympic Television Ratings

The July 22, 1996 Fortune magazine lists the Average rating (% of U.S. T.V.
households) for the Olympic sports. The top 5:
Gymnastics 20.6%
Swimming 19.4%
Cycling 18.8%
Diving 18.8%
Track & Field 17.4%

Who watches:
All sports (I assume this means not just the Olympics)
62% men
38% women

Summer Olympics
49% men
51% women

I also read (not sure which magazine) that since men will watch the
Olympics anyhow, NBC is targeting the women. And, in general, women liked
to know more about the atheletes personally so NBC is planning a number of
the "up front and personal" types of pieces. Sigh........ I think most of
us "die-hards" just want to see more gymnastics, less fluff.

Anyhow, I'm packing up & heading for Atlanta on Tuesday. I got my
assignments in the mail this weekend and I'll be working 10 days, every
other day basically. So, it looks like we'll have free time to do the town
& enjoy.

My portable computer broke down last weekend, so unfortunately I won't have
access to this list for the next 3 weeks. I'll report back (as I'm sure
will Myra and others who are at the games) when I'm back the 1st of August.

Enjoy!!!! And keep those VCR's rolling.

--Robin

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 7 Jul 1996 - Special issue
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