GYMN-L Digest - 14 Jul 1996 to 15 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 24 messages totalling 609 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. Olympic RSG rosters
2. Olympics tickets - last chance
3. Laetitia Begue
4. Overscoring.
5. re Kulikowski
6. Gymnastics everywhere.....
7. GYMN-L Digest - 13 Jul 1996 to 14 Jul 1996 (2)
8. Overscoring
9. Olympic TV Schedules (2)
10. underscoring
11. Moceanu -- Olympic Salute
12. WAG Olympic Romanian Lineup
13. Post Olympic Tour
14. Reaching too far??? Article in B'ham News
15. Magazine Alert
16. Reaching too far???
17. Articles on Web, compulsory sessions, etc.
18. T.V. Allert
19. olympic judging?
20. Long waits to get into Olympic venues
21. Moceanu and pushing too hard
22. o a walk in ceremo emonies

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:32:06 PDT
From: ***@AMDAHL.CO.ZA
Subject: Re: Olympic RSG rosters

>Could
>it be that both the Morroccan and Egyptian wildcards were awarded
>because
>their top gymnasts in each discipline are the best representatives
>from Africa?

No, although Egypt won the team RSG competition at the All Africa
Games, a South African girl (Michelle Cameron) won the AA. In the
WAG South Africa won the team competition and a South African
gymnast (Tanya Steenkamp) won the AA.

:) Helen. :)

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 10:46:23 EDT
From: ***@COMPUSERVE.COM
Subject: Olympics tickets - last chance

Hello,

With the Olympics a week away, I am making a final offer to sell some tickets to
gymnastics and dressage.

I have men's compulsories first round (9:15) for July 20 ($38).
There is also men's team optionals final round (4:30) for July 22 ($80).
Two tickets for equestrian dressage (8:00 am) in Conyers, GA on July 27 ($21
each).

Dana

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 11:18:00 -0400
From: ***@ICAN.CA
Subject: Laetitia Begue

In the June/July issue of International Gymnast, they reported that Laetitia
Begue suffered a career threatening injury to her right knee. This may sound
ignorant, but does this mean she will not be competing in Atlanta? If not,
when will she be back in competition?

-Krista

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 11:43:41 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Overscoring.

>I thoroughly think that the US uses a different system to judge its nationals
>and trials. BUt that is my opinion.
>
>
>Jeff
>
I agree. The highest score at the Canadian trials was
a 9.7, for women. That was probably, like, the lowest
score at the US trials! I know the Canadians aren't
at the same standard, but still... I can't see the U.S. team
getting that many 9.8's in World Competition. Maybe
it's meant to be a big ego boost!

Jordynn

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:06:13 -0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject: Re: re Kulikowski

HI,
It is not Dominique we have to worry about anymore. In the Times today
there was a big article on Amy Chow, at the end it said that moceanu did
OK last night but shannon had an very hard time, and it is clear that her
tendonitis is still a huge problem.
Moceanu is still not in top form, and only performed her compulsory floor
instead of optionals. it said that her landings were pretty stuck.
Alisa

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:40:14 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Gymnastics everywhere.....

Hi everyone,
In the New York newspapers, as in papers everywhere I'm sure, there is tons
of Olympic stuff. In the New York Times there is the usual introduction to
gymnastics, a section with an illustration of Shannon Miller doing her vault
and explaining it, and of course, profiles of....................Amy Chow and
Yuri Chechi. It was such a nice surprise, after the millions of articles on
Dominique Moceanu and Vitaly Scherbo. If you are not able to get the Times,
they are also online. I think it is just nytimes.com, but I'm sure you can
get it through any search engine. Happy reading!.......Ellen

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 14:34:45 -0400
From: ***@AMHUX4.AMHERST.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 13 Jul 1996 to 14 Jul 1996

I have been puzzling over this, and wondering if my imagination is just
becoming seduced by the NBC-hype, but I've been sensing that while I read
and hear a lot of adulation thrown towards Kerri, Dominique Dawes,
Amanda, at best, i sense tepid respect and grudging admiration towards
Shannon Miller, which really surprised me since she's in my pantheon of
all-time greatest athletes. I've only been an occasional reader of this
list, but that's the vibe I've gotten. Maybe it's her
laconic personality
that doesn't garner the screams of "Kim!! Kerri! Dominique!!!" from the
wide-eyed little gymners, but perhaps someone can tell me if I'm off the
deep end.

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 11:35:11 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Overscoring

I have read all of the posts about the
overscoring subject and I just have to express my opinion.

I do agree that overscoring is very common
in gymnastics but we have to relize that there are all different kinds
of judges out there who look for all different things in a routine. One
judge might be looking for good chroegraphy and another might be
looking solely on the tumbling. It's hard for everyone to be happy
about the scores but it isn't up to us.
I think that every gymnast has been
overscored and underscored at one point in their career. They have to
except the score and so should we. And w/the comments about the US is
going to be overscored in Atlanta, I have to say, why shouldn't they?
Whatever meet you go to, the home team will be overscored. Almost every
country will get to be the home team at some point and there, they will
be overscored. I know that it shouldn't be that way but it is. Some
judges listen for the crowd reaction and take that into consideration.
With the games being held in the US, it is obvious that the crowd will
go crazy for their home team.
I wish that the overscoring didn't take
place, but it does and we are all going to have to deal w/it. I hope
that when the winners are announced, everyone can just put their
personal feelings aside and be happy for the gymnast who has worked
their whole life to get to this moment.

Laura

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:22:53 -0700
From: ***@EFN.ORG
Subject: Olympic TV Schedules

Well, like the rest of you, I received a variety of Olympic TV Schedules
in my Sunday paper. Unfortunatley, I cannot make any sense of them!

They appear to be showing the mens' and womens' team events at least
twice, sometimes three times each day. Does this mean they are
re-broadcasting the same competition over and over again? Or does it
mean that they are showing different teams each time?

Although I would do anything to see more hours of gymnastics coverage, if
they really are showing different segments of the competition throughout
the day I am going to be a slave to the television having a recording
nightmare!

Someone had posted once that it was essentially the same stuff, but that
NBC jazzes up the evening versions. If anyone knows the true answer, or
knows where I can get the true answer, please respond!

And, for you working gymners out there, what excuse can you give for
missing work during the Olympics? Does Olympic Fever count?

Thanks!

Katie

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:36:25 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: underscoring

I was recently watching my tape of the CBC (Canadian) coverage of the
1996 World's. They showed one routine on each apparatus except FX
by a Canadian. I was really disgusted with the low scores they recieved.

Examples:

Yvonne Tousek on Vault - she did a Yurchenko-half-front layout (valued at
a 9.9 with excellent form and step (medium sized I'll say) on the
landing. Her score - 9.40
Shannon Miller did the same vault at US Nationals and stuck it for
a 9.8. Four tenths for a step on the landing? No step is THAT big.
The only logical reason I can see for that big of a deduction would be
if she posted the wrong vault number. They would have mentioned
that on the broadcast if that had happened.

Jennifer Exaltation on beam - highlights: punch front/straddle jump/
chest roll (balance break after straddle jump), bh/straight layout,
layout stepout/layout stepout, double back dismount with a tiny step.
She also had another balance break on a Bo jump.
Her score - 9.387. Now, I don't know what this was rated out of, but
it seems to me that two balance breaks and a tiny step on the landing
would not be worth a 6+ point deduction for another gymnast, but I
could be wrong here.

Shannon McEachern on vault - Handspring-front pike (same vault as
Annie Portuondo, done almost exacly the same) - her score: 9.537
Portuondo got a 9.637.

The highest score by a Canadian at those Worlds was McEachern's
9.499 average on vault. It seems to me that the judges were taking a
minimum on tenth deduction for being Canadian. And I'm not saying
that this only happens to Canadians - gymnasts from other countries
without teams never get shown on TV.

A lot of people have commented on Chusovitina being underscored in
the past. She's from Uzbekestan (or one of those), so she doesn't have
a team either. Maybe there is a deduction for being from a country
that doesn't have enough depth to place well in the team competition.

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:40:07 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Moceanu -- Olympic Salute

During NBC's Prudential Update today they showed a clip
from the U.S. Olympic Salute (or something). They showed
Moceanu on vault -- stuck landing. Next they showed most
of her bars routine, including a full twisting double layout with
a good landing. Looks like she's in good shape. They also
had an interview with her after.
Unfortunately I was at the gym, cycling away, when I saw this
and I didn't have headphones. Since I'm not very good at
reading lips, I couldn't tell what they were saying.
They also had a picture of Shannon Miller, but I don't know
what they said about her.
Jordynn

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 16:33:10 -0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 13 Jul 1996 to 14 Jul 1996

Hi,
I have no problem with shannon, in fact I admire her a lot, and it is not
grudgingly. I don't think that kerri and dominique d. are any different
in personality than shannon. The raves they have been getting are
proabably because of their recent amazing comp. at trials.
Just my opinion
Alisa

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 16:52:46 -0400
From: ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: Olympic TV Schedules

i agree....is there any way that someone can give us an idea when NBC is
airing gymnastics? Otherwise, I am going to have to tape everything,
since i work evenings

i would appreciate any insight anyone might have on this

> Well, like the rest of you, I received a variety of Olympic TV Schedules
> in my Sunday paper. Unfortunatley, I cannot make any sense of them!
>
> They appear to be showing the mens' and womens' team events at least
> twice, sometimes three times each day. Does this mean they are
> re-broadcasting the same competition over and over again? Or does it
> mean that they are showing different teams each time?
>
> Although I would do anything to see more hours of gymnastics coverage, if
> they really are showing different segments of the competition throughout
> the day I am going to be a slave to the television having a recording
> nightmare!
>
> Someone had posted once that it was essentially the same stuff, but that
> NBC jazzes up the evening versions. If anyone knows the true answer, or
> knows where I can get the true answer, please respond!
>
> And, for you working gymners out there, what excuse can you give for
> missing work during the Olympics? Does Olympic Fever count?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Katie
>

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:02:43 -0400
From: ***@HICOM.NET
Subject: WAG Olympic Romanian Lineup

Howdy, GYMNers:

Forgive if it's already been posted, but do we know the full Women's Romanian
lineup for the Olympics now that Gogean has been rumored to be competing again?
Specifically, I was curious to see if Bican made the team...

Thanks,
Michele

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 14:30:47 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Post Olympic Tour

> Will any foreign gymnasts take part in this tour, or will it be an
> all-American show?

I have no idea! What Mihai and the others have received didn't include
the small introduction, just a list of cities and dates. (I have heard
talk of both a international and Americans only tours.) The list I
previously posted was the most updated info out, I believe.

:)Kris Bagiu

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:34:50 UT
From: ***@MSN.COM
Subject: Re: Reaching too far??? Article in B'ham News

----------Reaching too far?
Dominique Moceanu has her place on U.S. team despite having a broken
leg

by: Mike Holtzclaw
Newport News Daily Press
old girl who died earlier this year in a wrongheaded attempt to fly an
airplane
across the country.
Everyone knew that was a bad idea, a tragedy waiting to happen. Maybe
a
second -grader is physically capable of piloting an airplane, but that does
not
make her emotionally mature enough to accept the risks inherent in this
stunt.
That's what she has parents for. But those people, who should have been
talking her out of it, instead were the ones talking her into it.
Dominique Moceanu is another plucky little girl, and she figures she
can
tough this out. It is normal for a strong-willed child to think like that.
And it is up to competent, caring parents to sit her down and say: "Honey, we
know how much this means to you, but you're not healthy enough. We are so
sorry, but some day you might understand that this was the right dicision."
But nobody seems to be saying that.
Her coach, Bela Karolyi, said he wished he could give her his leg. Of
course, if he was concerned about her as a young girl and not just as the
latest filly in his stable, he would not have to offer his leg to her -- he
would simply refuse to let her imperil her own.
Instead, he is leading her back on o the mats, presumably with her
parents blessing. Telling her to run on her broken leg, to hurl herself
through the air over and over again, and above all, to make sure she sticks
her
landing.
There is another possibility, one that nobody wants to mantion because
it would mess up a neat story. The posibility that she will come out
twisting,
spinning vault and land with the grotesque impact that would make Joe
Theismann's nationally televised broken leg look like a stubbed toe by
comparison. If she sits out the Olympics, Dominique Moceanu would be
heartbroken. And she would cry.
But we could all handle those tears alot more readily than the ones
she
might end up shedding otherwise.


Michele

I totally agree. Think of all the predictions, all the articles, and
commercials that would be wrong then because she couldn't compete. Think of
all the money lost. Well, of course she should compete. (sarcasm) I think
she should wait until the 2000 Olympics. If she is so good then she will be
able to make it again, and if she doesn't then she knows, hey, I was good
enough. Which should be all she needs.

Jjeorje

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:25:41 UT
From: ***@MSN.COM
Subject: Re: Magazine Alert

The July 15, edition of "People" magazine has a special section on "Olympic
Heroes Then & Now". Three women from gymnastics, Mary Lou Retton, Nadia
Comaneci, and Olga Korbut, are featured with pictures of their families and
homes (and with Mary Lou and Olga, their children).

Other featured athletes include Zola Budd Pieterse, Dick Fosbury, Bob Beamon,
Nancy Hogshead, Greg Louganis, Wyomia Tyus, and others.

The part on the girls starts with a double page spread (in living color) with
the three in their 'today bodies' leaping into the air smiling and looking
very
happy. The title "10 Again".

Also articles on Billy Mills, Bruce Jenner, and Emil Zatopek.

And, oh yes, Kim Zmeskal with a picture (another double page) of her with her
boyfriend, Chris, both being sprayed by her sister, Melissa, with a garden
hose.

I have gotten this and it is very good. Nice to see Zmeskal truly "hanging
out", unlike a picture in '92 teen magazine with a picture of her and Okino
"hanging out" but they're on beam looking very fake and posed. There is also
an article on Moceanu in People.


Jjeorje

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:54:04 UT
From: ***@MSN.COM
Subject: Re: Reaching too far???

----------
Subject: Re: Reaching too far???

I recently saw a post on the list apparently quoting in an article in
the Birmingham news expressing concerns about if Dominique Moceanu
was being pushing too far. Later, I saw a response from a woman (who
shall remain nameless), who said that she thought all of the media
was jumping on the "Little girls" bandwagon.

I haven't seen ANY negative articles even closely related to
gymnastics. Even article I have seen has been nice, glowing, and
positive. Most have been profiling Dominique Moceanu. I am going to
tell you- I am damned sick of all of this crying and screaming and
moaning about that book by Joan Ryan, the Oprah Winfrey back in April

I think that she was just talking about that she has a lot of pressure on her
and it is more of the amount of "good" articles about her that build this up.
I don't think it was much about Joan Ryan (well, similair, but not as strong)

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 20:21:49 -0500
From: ***@GATEWAY.US.SIDWELL.EDU
Subject: Articles on Web, compulsory sessions, etc.

First of all, many of the recent gymnastics related articles people
have been discussing are available for free on the Internet. The
People articles (interview with Olga & Nadia & Mary Lou, article on
Kim Zmeskal) and the SI articles (Dominique Moceanu and her, whoops,
four inch stress fracture, Romanian gymnasts photo essay, medal
picks, etc.) are available from Pathfinder. The URL is:
http://www.pathfinder.com/
Click on the People picture or the SI picture to the left of the
screen to get to the articles.

Also, I have a question about the compulsory sessions at the
Olympics. Apparently there are four sessions, but the Olympics
brochure only lists two. I have tickets to the second of these two
sessions. I take this to mean that I have tickets to the last two of
the four sessions (I think USA is in the third session and Russia &
China are in the fourth). Can someone confirm this?

Lisa

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:53:15 -0700
From: ***@FLASH.NET
Subject: T.V. Allert

the history channel is going to be showing the road to glory mini series
this week.
Tuesday's ep is Gymnastics, and i looked up on the history channels home
page, and it will include great gymnasts of the past including Larissa
Latynina. I hope the entire thing won't focus on interviews and mary lou.
becuase i've got lots of her footage, and none of the early gymnasts.


Now, a review.
Shannon Miller-One More Time
A production of Dynamo Gymnastics
A thirty minute long special shown on OETA the oklahome pbs channel.

There is lots of footage of Shannon, no footage of other gymnasts at
work, even those that train at the same gym, including Jenny Thompson.
There is footage of Shannon as a young child, and at the 89 olympic
festivel.
Nuno made it sound like it was quite unusual for any gymnast to win five
medals at an olympics.
I really wish they could have shown Shannon interacting with the other
elite level gymnast at her club. BUt NUno made great efforts to make it
look as if she trains alone.
The narrator was said to be a person called Bob Hopkins, but it sounded
as if it was Nuno.
Nuno also said that it was highly unusual for any gymnast, eather male of
female to return for another olympics.
almost all the gym footage was taken by a hand held home movie recorder.
There was something at peggy liddick said that really bothered me.
she said "Rest for an injered gymnast would be nice, but it's never an
option."
She revers to a gymnast as being a pro athlete, and that she said that a
coach wouldn't think of not putting emmit smith in a super bowl if he had
a hamstring pull. so a coach should never think of pulling a female
gymnast out of a compettion for a "minor" injury such as that. (yes that
was her wording)
the entire video was really a slickly made promo piece for nuno. If he
thought he would get more gymnasts to come to his club he could be wrong.
even though it is quite obvious that he cares deeply for miller, the
attitude that it's okay to work an injered athlete is troubling.

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 18:10:37 -0700
From: ***@GOODNET.COM
Subject: olympic judging?

Just out of curiosity, how much does a judge get paid in the
olympics? Men? Women?

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:04:12 EDT
From: ***@COMPUSERVE.COM
Subject: Long waits to get into Olympic venues

A report on the US cable station CNN stated that people may have to wait up to
an hour and a half to get into some of the Olympic venues because of security
checks at the entrance gates.

The report also stated that people might have to wait a half hour to an hour to
get a MARTA train to the Olympic venues.

So, be ready to leave early to get to the events on time.

Dana

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:46:19 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Moceanu and pushing too hard

Not to set off fireworks here but IN MY OPINION..........

Dominique Moceanu does gymnastics because she loves it. You can see it in
her eyes. It's sincere. She has worked her whole life SO FAR for this goal.
She knows what she wants. Each of these gymnasts makes their own choices
to do it. I look at these talented athletes with all the respect and honor
they deserve. They can make their own decisions. Who are any of us to tell
them otherwise? It's really their own business.

*also tonight on my local news there was a brief segment about the US Women's
team arriving in Atlanta from N.C. today.. They showed Miller, Moceanu, and
Phellps arriving at the Atlanta airport and had a quick interview with
Karolyi and Moceanu.
AHH 5 more days!!!!! Let the games begin!! GO USA!!!!!

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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 00:05:24 -0400
From: ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: o a walk in ceremo emonies

any idea if the us gymnasts w gymnasts from any country ever
walk in the open ceremonies?

has a us gym i don';t t seem to remember teh u he us USA
team walking in tere c he ceremony...anyoune
know if they will be waling marching in on friday night?

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 14 Jul 1996 to 15 Jul 1996 - Special issue
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