GYMN-L Digest - 15 Jun 1996 - Special issue

There are 25 messages totalling 619 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. Chow and Pickens (3)
2. Andree Pickens & Amy Chow WILL be at Olympic Trials
3. Kerri's choreography
4. Olympic trials (3)
5. WAG: Olympics Selection process in US of A.
6. GYMN-L Digest - 14 Jun 1996 to 15 Jun 1996
7. Amy Chow (2)
8. Valdez
9. Injuries and Euros
10. ignore this test message
11. Rhonda Faehn (2)
12. Karolyi Choregraphy
13. Euros...
14. Canada Trials
15. Europeans (3)
16. q re US junior natl tem and petitions
17. petitioning

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:31:30 -0400
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Chow and Pickens

According to a post on the alt.sports.gymnastics newsgroup, both
Amy Chow and Andree Pickens have been granted a petition to compete at the
Olympic Trials (no source for this info was cited on the newsgroup; can
anyone confirm this?) So it looks like there will be 16 gymnasts competed
for the 7 coveted spots (does the alternate get to travel though? This is
a question I asked before. The alternate has always traveled before, but
now that 7 compete instead of 6, I'm wondering if that will still be the
case).
Chris.

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:00:19 -0400
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Chow and Pickens

The USAG web page confirms that Chow and Pickens have been
petitioned to the trials
Chris.

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:23:38 CST
From: ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject: Re: Andree Pickens & Amy Chow WILL be at Olympic Trials

According to USAG Online, both Andree & Amy will compete at the Olympic
Trials. Their petitions were accepted.

--Robin

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 12:10:55 -0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject: Re: Kerri's choreography

Is Kerri Competing in UCLA. I don't think she still qualifies for ncaa,
because she accepted money from american cup.
She can still train, but I don't think she can compete
Alisa

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 13:03:40 -0400
From: ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject: Olympic trials

I have heard some people express these hypothetical questions about gymnasts
petitioning to get one the Olympic team without going to the trials. Well,
it seems that EVERYBODY is hurt, injured, wounded, bothered, aching, tender,
shot, stabbed, impaled, etc.

This question of which girl is going to petition should be irrevelant. The
rules state that the score from the olympic trials count 100% as the SOLE
factor of who is choosen as representatives of the U.S. olympic team. A rule
is a rule. USA gymnastics is good at this, changing the rules to accomodate
certain people (who they like). Remember '92?

WAIT A MINUTE!!!!! Before somebody posts a message to this board or sends me
a nasty e-mail message, I KNOW THERE IS PROVISION TO PETITION TO SKIP THE
OLYMPIC TRIALS. IT IS WRONG!!!!!!!!! Who decides who gets to pass go, who
gets $200. Who goes to jail?

I heard that both Shannon Miller and Dominique Moceanu (unproved) have
petitioned to skip the olympic trials and go straight to the olypmics. Are
they supposed to get $200, too. Amy Chow and Andree Pickens both are
petitioning to go to the olympic trials. But wait a minute? Can't they
petition to go straight to the olympics? One of the previous posters had a
very valid point. Who has the right to go straight to the olympic trials,
olympics? Everybody can petition then. Darn near everybody is hurt.

I knew from the beginning that the olympic trials were a farce. Even if
everybody was peaches and cream, it would have been a farce. We all knew who
was going to be on the olympic team six months ago. We know who is anointed
and who isn't. Now everybody is "petitioning" to skip the olympic trials,
pass go and collect $200. "These olympic trials will be the best ever", "The
US trials are going to be the closest ever, very intense, full of emotion,
etc", " I can't wait!!!". What a joke. And now most of the "stars" won't
even be there?? I can't wait. Who is going to be on the olympic team. The
suspense is killing me. This is unreal.

Fair is fair, right is right, and wrong is wrong. What's next, petitioning
the International Gymnastics Federation for medals at the olympics? "Well,
you know so-so is going to win these many medals at the olympics (like we
really know that), so instead of so-so going to Atlanta and competing, why
don't you just give him/her a gold medal, a silver and a bronze?" Hey, they
can skip the olympics all together and just get the medals. Wow!!! Sounds
great!!!!

Hey, listen, Florence Griffin-Joyner got a pulled hamstring, has to miss the
track and field olympic trials, and she is out of the olympics. Nobody is
making up special rules for her, AND SHE IS ONE OF THE GREATEST FEMALE TRACK
STARS OF ALL TIME!!!! 1000 times greater than some of these folks getting
special favors and treatment. That's deep ain't it? But I guess if you're
"good with the media" and "is great with the public", you're America's best
hope for gold, an new olympian??? (regardless of how good you are
gymnastically).......... OH-OH, that was a low blow!!!! I apologize. I went
too far. I was out of line. Shame on me, shame. I actually brought up
serious point, and off all places, the gymn forum. I am not fit to live. I
must hate gymnastics for even thinking about something like that. The idea
that some people get special treatment from USA gymnastics and others. I
must need therapy for even thinking that.

So the olympic trials questions are mute. SAVE YOUR MONEY AND TIME. Stay at
home!!! Don't go to Boston, unless you are going on a vacation or a business
trip. Save wear and tear on your vcr. It ain't worth it. Tape "Attack Of The
Killer Tomatoes", instead. I haven't gone to the shrink, yet. So forgive me.
Maybe by next week, I will be fully cured and healed.

UnderDog

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:30:50 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Chow and Pickens

See USA Gymnastics Online:

http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/usag/news/1996/jun11-w-petition.html

for the press release on Chow/Pickens.

At http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/usag/news/

You will find the most current list of press releases from USA
Gymnastics.

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 12:36:38 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: WAG: Olympics Selection process in US of A.

Like underdog, I see this as a problem, too. I can't see any difference between
what the people are doing with not going to trials vs. anyone who
may be a college athlete and doesn't have to attend classes but it had
been worked out that they will get the GPA necessary to be able to compete
for the school.

I guess I am just a purest and I thought that the system was built to be
followed. I feel bad for anyone who makes the top 7 and then gets
bumped.


Equally important, I can see how Miller would get consideration. But I
can't see how Moceanu did. She didn't impress as much
at Nationals (to me, at least) and she hasn't done much of anything,
really, except that one week in Sabae and last years nationals. (This isn't
Moceanu bashing, so calm down people.) I just wonder why she's
getting this treatment. Plus, she didn't compete in worlds this year. I
also can't see how Picken's was allowed to petition into the trials.
I mean, if she was in 17th place after complusories, does anyone think
she could be in the top seven in trials? She might not even have made
the trial's cut off? Could her petitioning be a way to assure she
makes the trials? Is this a political move on her and her camps part?
It seems odd. Amy Chow, yeah, she was in the top third of the group, but
Pickens was in the middle half.

Anyway, I guess gymnastics will always have its problems..................



Jeff

Dina, Dina, Dina.

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 15:17:59 -0400
From: ***@AMHUX4.AMHERST.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 14 Jun 1996 to 15 Jun 1996

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, so I apologize in advance if
it has, but there is an article on the Phelps family in this months
Ladies Home Journal w/ Christie Brinkley on the cover. it's a well done
piece and my favorite part of it is when Jaycie, her mom and the reporter
are watching the 95 Nationals, and the insipid commentator (who I believe
was Tom Hammond) talks of Shannon Miller being "ancient" and "over the
hill", "more woman than child," and Phelps' mom says, "That's disgusting"
while Jaycie yells "Shut up" at the tv.

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:04:26 -0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject: Re: Olympic trials

Hi,
Normally I don't agree with galfar, but I have to this time. Petitioning
is wrong. Just ask amanda borden, or kim kelly. Kim earned her own spot
to the team in 92 and should not have been taken off the team. I thought
that was horrible and even considered not watching 92. Poor amanda, she
should have been the alternate. Who knows, she could have competed. If
Usa Gymnastics thinks they can do the same thing this year, I think they
are in serious trouble. The florence griffith joyner analogy was
SUPERB. Only in gymnastics can someone get on the team with out
competing. I may not agree with the rule counting trials 100%, but that
si the rule and the gymnasts should follow it. If dominique can't
compete at trials, the maybe America's sweetheart(sarcasm) should go to
atlanta. That would be very funny.
Every single athelete is feeling the pressure both physically and
emotionally. You don't see amanda or jaycie or dom dawes trying to
petition, and everyone of them has an injury. My advice to the gymnasts
is suck it up or turn on your tv on july 19!!!!!!
I know this sounds harsh, but I can't bear the thought of another 92
contraversy.
I hope the european champs ar good
Alisa

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:08:41 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Olympic trials

<< The
rules state that the score from the olympic trials count 100% as the SOLE
factor of who is choosen as representatives of the U.S. olympic team. A rule
is a rule. USA gymnastics is good at this, changing the rules to accomodate
certain people (who they like). Remember '92?

WAIT A MINUTE!!!!! Before somebody posts a message to this board or sends me
a nasty e-mail message, I KNOW THERE IS PROVISION TO PETITION TO SKIP THE
OLYMPIC TRIALS. IT IS WRONG!!!!!!!!! >>

Well, the provision to petition is just as much a part of the offficial rules
as the rule that trials count 100%. If your point is that the written rules
have to be followed --a rule is a rule -- then you have to allow people to
petition to Trials and/or the Games. Now of course it is up to USAG to be
very strict about accepting petitions. And I would think/hope they would be
a lot more strict about petitioning someone to Trials vs. petitioning
someone directly onto the Team. Personally, I think the only person who
should be able to petition directly onto the team, should be Shannon Miller,
based on her current U.S. ranking as well as her international performance in
the past four years. And even Miller shouldn't be able to petition without a
legitimate injury.

I think the most interesting part of the rules of petitioning is that if you
petition to skip the Trials and your petition is denied, you are forbidden
from competing at the Trials So you're taking a gamble.

Also, underdog, other countries have been hand-picking their teams for years
and none of them have petitioned the FIG for Olympic medals yet. : )


Tim

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:54:55 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Amy Chow

In a message dated 96-06-15 06:04:48 EDT, you write:

>I thought Amy Chow was something like 15 or 19 days to young to go to the
>olympics. Is this not true? How old is she?
>
>

Amy is a senior in high school. Last I heard she is signing with STanford in
the fall. So, no she is not too young.

Shelley

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 18:02:41 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Valdez

In a message dated 96-06-15 06:04:48 EDT, you write:

>
>As long as I'm posting to the list, here's a relevant question which I
>couldn't find answered in the FAQ: What's a Valdez? I've seen it mentioned
>several times but have until now simply wallowed in my ignorance. Someone
>please educate me.
>
>-Patrick

A valdez is a backwalkover from a seated position. Usually done with one leg
extended straight on the floor and the other bent. One arm is extended while
the other is placed behind the gymnast. She then lifts the extended arm and
leg, and kicks over into a backwalkover.
Shelley

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 18:55:00 -0400
From: ***@FREENET.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Injuries and Euros

Hi!

Firstly, I have a couple injuries that I'd like to address, hoping that
someone on the list can email me with exercises to strenghen them.

I injured my ankle (again) today. It has a tendancy to roll over nearly
every game, causing it to be painful and leaves me with a noticable
limp. Does anyone have any exercises that can help make it stronger so
it doesn't happen all the time?

I'm also looking to increase my back flexibility to get that back and
front walkover that give me so much trouble (I almost have the front one,
Yay!)

If anyone can help me out, it would be appreciated. Coaches might know
something, as would gymnasts and knowledgable people. I'm hoping I won't
have to go to physical therapy.....

Finally, just wondering who finished 5th, ahead of Khorkina, at Euros.
It was quite obvious that they had taped on commentary after- I really
wish that stations would make it live. Otherwise, I thought the ABC
coverage was pretty good for it being only a part of Wide World of
Sports, even tho it seemed to me like they skipped a couple GOOD
routines- were Milo and Khork's floors shown????... Did Andrea Cacovean
compete?

Oh, yes, about Canadian champs- I finally saw Yvonne Tousek's routine,
the one that was being heavily debated as not being shown for some
coverage..... (Am. Cup?) Commendable job, although I found that I
didn't like Machechern as much as in the past. Floor ex seemed to be
mostly tumbling, little creative dance.......

Enough babbling-
Jillyan

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 18:46:04 -0500
From: ***@PRIMENET.COM
Subject: ignore this test message

Very sorry to clutter up the list like this, but I'm having
trouble posting to GYMN-L. Rachele, Debbie, or George, please
let me know if you receive this message via the list server.
Thanks very much.
--John

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:28:46 -0700
From: ***@TELIS.ORG
Subject: Re: Rhonda Faehn

Jeffrey wrote:

"No gymnasts is a lock on anything when it comes to the Olympics. Many
have sat in tears when they realize that regardless of how much they
worked they aren't going to make it to the Games. Anyone remember Sabrina
Mar, Rhonda Faehn, Doe Yamishiro, and Dan Hayden? Things HAPPEN."

Rhonda Faehn did make the 88 olympic team as the alternate. As an
alternate, the athlete is still considered an "olympian"

Christopher wrote:

Hey, I just realized something. Kerri will be the first Bela
> Karolyi 2x Olympian in the US (hopefully!!!) and when she goes to UCLA
> next fall, she will be the first Karolyi Olympic gymnast to compete
> gymnastics in college! :)

Rhonda competed for UCLA, 1989-1992 (she started on the UCLA women's
gymnastics team the same year that I did, but only competed 3 years).
Rhonda is currently working several summer gymnastics camps and will be
getting married this September.

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:38:49 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Karolyi Choregraphy

You wrote:
>
>>And I don't get why everyone has such a problem w/Karolyi's >gymnasts
floor
>routines. You are supposed to express your >personality on the floor,
not try
>and suite someone else's.
>
>I think that IS the reason . . . or do you believe that an 18
year-old like
>Kerri enjoys doing, as Helen so well put it, a "shaky bum" routine?
>
>I somehow doubt that any of the Karolyi gymnasts were/are as vapid as
those
>floor routines made them appear . . .
>

I don't see the butt shaking and everything else that you
guys see. I really like her routine as well as Moceanu's and Zmeskals'
. I guess that it is just a matter of opinion....

Laura

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:01:44 EST
From: ***@MMC.MARYMT.EDU
Subject: Euros...

Hi gang!

I just finished watching European Championships and I am really happy
that Lilia Podkapiva won!!!! (sp.) She and Lavinia looked *great*.
One thing that I was really unhappy with was the fact that in the
middle of the meet ABC went to the mini marathon. Wide World of
Sports always does that. If I sit down to watch gymnastics...I want
to see gymnastics--Only. Bogi looked great although I really don't
like her style. All in all the meet was really exciting especially
Podkapiva's floor routine. I can't wait to see her in Atlanta, she
is definately one of my favorites for the gold.

Gymnastically,

Nikki =)

P.S. Sorry about spelling =)

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 19:25:25 -0600
From: ***@SUPERNET.AB.CA
Subject: Canada Trials

I want to say that I watched the CAN champs. I was really impressed with
the Womens bars. They were really good. I thought that perhaps a few of
the floor routines should have music changes along with the dance side changed.

I really thought that the athletes my country are sending are going to do
well. I think that Jennifer Ex is really good too.
I really wanted Leva D. the girl that is from Ukraine originally, to go to
the olympics.

Good job!!!!

Kel

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 19:27:36 -0600
From: ***@SUPERNET.AB.CA
Subject: Europeans

The coverage of the Europeans were great. I think they should have showed
Milo more though. I think Bogi truly deserved to get the silver medal. I
like Pod's floor routine I think that it suits her and will be good going
into the Olympics.

I can't wait until event finals, I thought that they were next Saturday,
when are they now?

Kel

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:35:27 -0500
From: ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: Re: Amy Chow

>I thought Amy Chow was something like 15 or 19 days to young to go to the
>olympics. Is this not true? How old is she?

Considering Amy just finished her junior year of high school she'd have to a
pretty young rising senior to not be old enough for the olympics! I believe
she is 17. I think you're thinking of Mina Kim who's birthday is in January
thus missing the December 31, 1996 cut off date.

-Meg

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:16:18 -0500
From: ***@MINN.NET
Subject: Europeans

I just hate it when ABC switches over to another sport right in the middle
of the gymnastics. It is very annoying. Also, no offense to Shannon Miller,
but why do they talk about her, and do a mini-feature thing on her, when she
isn't even at the competition???

Julie

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 22:19:39 -0400
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Europeans

> I just hate it when ABC switches over to another sport right in the middle
> of the gymnastics. It is very annoying. Also, no offense to Shannon Miller,
> but why do they talk about her, and do a mini-feature thing on her, when she
> isn't even at the competition???
>
> Julie
Weren't you paying attention? European's were held in the same
venue as 1993 worlds, which is why they had the flashback to Miller
winning that meet. It was hardly a feature on her. It lasted less than a
minute. I dare say that even if Miller hadn't won 1993 worlds, there
still would have been a mini flashback to those worlds. It's only
natural, given the meets shared the same venue.
Chris.

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 22:27:36 -0400
From: ***@CYKICK.ECLIPSE.NET
Subject: Re: Rhonda Faehn

Michelle writes (in part):

>Rhonda Faehn did make the 88 olympic team as the alternate. As an
>alternate, the athlete is still considered an "olympian"

Rhonda also became "infamous" in Seoul for remaining on the podium after
moving the board after a teammate mounted the unevens during team
competition; perhaps costing the U.S. a medal. :-( (It did, if I recall
correctly, cause a deduction in the gymnast's score.)

Helena

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 22:47:29 -0400
From: ***@EROLS.COM
Subject: q re US junior natl tem and petitions

I understand that seniors can petition into the US olympic trials (Chow
and Pickens, this time around) -- but is there any recourse for juniors
injured during nationals to petition onto an expanded jr natl team (eg,
Kinsey Rowe & Mina Kim, to pick just a couple of top gymnasts who were
not able to compete at the championships because of injury)?

--Ann

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:05:47 -0700
From: ***@VCN.BC.CA
Subject: petitioning

Dear Gymner,

I agree with Garlfar and a few others on this petitioning, I think it is
just crap. I have a few points to make, it is from a different sport but
still in the subject of petitioning. I for one CAN'T stand politics in
sport, I been screw too many times as an athlete. This summer my club is
sending a four men kayak crew (K-4), to Canadian National and I made sure
that the members will only be selected from the four fastest people in
single (K-1) and no playing favor. Some people has a unhappy look on their
face but I told them if you are too scare to go toe to toe against me on
the water, then you definitely should just stay home, what's fair is fair
and if you can beat me fair & squire then I will just have to cheer for
you. The Strong survive and the weak get eaten up, their is no sueing or
I take you to court in sport, you either perform or quit and in my sport
the clock is the boss, no compromise.

Other example, my friend Mihai Apostol (sorry not Bagiu but Hi! Kris) was
making the 94 Canadian National Team for the World Championship, he had a
shoulder injury so bad they had
to give him some cortizone shots, he told me afterward he fell like his
shoulder was going to fall off during the race, BUT HE PULL THROUGH and
made the team, he did get rest up afterward and did good at the
Worlds'. I think that's the way it should be, you either make it or
go home. I know it sucks to get injure before a big meet, but that's
your faith and it's all part of the harsh reality in sport & life, deal
with it or step down. Sorry that was a little off but I think the idea is
similar, please don't fry me but if you want please do so in private.

Go! Amanda! Go! Sonics!
Thomas

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 15 Jun 1996 - Special issue
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