GYMN-L Digest - 17 May 1996 - Special issue

There are 19 messages totalling 636 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. ...curious???
2. Euros Jr. W team results
3. Mens' team in Spartanburg (3)
4. Olympic announcers (4)
5. MAG/Fujimoto - 1976 olympics
6. New Rhythmic Web Site....
7. Olympic announcers (fwd) (2)
8. New skill
9. John Tesh
10. Cobb County
11. Dominique in Cosmo
12. Survival Guide for Gymnasts
13. '96 USRGCA Ntl Classics-Day1(long)

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Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 06:27:39 -0400
From: ***@ISMI.NET
Subject: Re: ...curious???

Hey ya'll,

>I have noticed that after Soni Meduna completes her routines that she always
>shrugs her shoulders forward.

I have also noticed these things...I'm not sure why Soni shrugs her
shoulders but I am also curious and would love to know why.

>Moceanu tends to say "you know" an awful lot in her interviews, and I am afraid
>to say that Bogninskaya has picked up the habit.

Secondly, Moceanu uses the phrase "you know" like most people use the word
"the"!!! I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but we all get into our habits
and sometimes they tend to distract from the overall conversation in the
interview. We also tend to be contagious with our phrases and pass them onto
others that see us often. This is DEFINATELY the case with Svetlana
Boginskaya. With these two dominant gymnasts spreading around the phrase, I
wouldn't be surprised if Bela's next interview started with the words "you
know..." I say we just create a new event called the "you know". It can be
scored by seeing who can use the phrase "you know" the most times and the
most elegantly. *LOL* :)

Well, "you know", I had better let you all go. I am sorry if I have
offended anyone, but "you know" me. *LOL*

Oh no, I've caught Dom syndrome!!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:30:08 EDT
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Euros Jr. W team results

>From Cetate World Gymnastics All Around [e-mail magazine):


Here are the junior team results of the European
Championships in Birmingham.

vault bars beam floor total

RUS 29.036 28.712 27.887 28.087 113.722
FRA 28.424 28.599 27.424 28.200 112.647
UKR 28.549 28.312 27.724 27.636 112.221
ITA 28.487 28.124 27.111 28.474 112.196
ESP 28.461 28.236 27.099 28.087 111.883
ROM 28.700 25.925 27.475 28.575 110.675
SVK 28.399 27.399 27.275 26.275 109.348
HUN 28.049 27.362 26.200 27.087 108.698
GBR 28.049 26.861 26.674 26.412 107.996
GER 28.137 27.750 26.049 25.899 107.835
ISR 27.762 28.299 25.050 26.537 107.648
NED 27.437 27.874 23.887 27.837 107.035
BLR 27.486 26.924 25.337 27.099 106.846
CZE 27.561 25.562 25.162 27.537 105.822
SWE 27.049 25.925 25.999 26.824 105.797
GRE 28.249 25.075 25.662 26.449 105.435
SUI 27.174 24.212 25.750 25.637 102.773
SLO 26.387 25.350 24.937 25.250 101.924
POL 27.587 26.149 21.837 25.562 101.135
TUR 26.387 24.474 23.862 24.999 99.722
AUT 26.699 23.686 23.312 25.237 98.934
LUX 26.099 23.537 22.912 25.475 98.023
FIN 26.125 24.562 22.324 24.087 97.098
CRO 25.962 21.562 24.812 23.812 96.148

Web site with Euros results:
http://www.pi.net/~cetate/euro96.html
http://www.baga.co.uk/

I'm rather surprised that Romania ended up in 6th place,
and I hadn't expected to see Italy so high up.

>>Kathy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:55:06 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Mens' team in Spartanburg

>Well I'm delighted that the US men's team has decided not to train in
>Spartanburg. As far as I'm concerned, the team shouldn't be spending it's
>dollars (food $, lodging $, etc.) on a city that "condemns the gay
>lifestyle."
>
>Garlfar, gay men, lesbians, and bisexual men and women make up 1/10 of the
>population. That means we are 1/10 of the gymnasts in the US. A city that
>condemned Italians or Jews or Irish people would be a lousy place to stay
>for a week, no? So why think differently about a city that condemns "the
>gay lifestyle?"
>
>Ilene, who wouldn't know she had a "lifestyle" if the news media didn't
>keep telling her so...

There is so much wrong with your post I don't know where to begin.

1. The USAG, USOC, AGOC, etc... should not be concerned in the least what the
local politics of the town are. IMHO this is just so much PC nonsense. Their
only concern should be the best interests of the team in question. Getting
them tangentially involved in some political protest is categorically NOT in
their best interest.

2. The assertion that 10% of the population is gay has been proven false. The
source of this figure is a single survey of prison inmates who were asked if
they had ever had a homosexual experience. Common sense tells us that this is
not reflective of the state of the general population. And the census bureau
tells us that the actual figure is more like 1-2%. I can also tell you from
my personal experience of 17 years in gymnastics that I have met very few
people involved in the sport who were gay. Certainly nothing resembling 10%.

Now let me head off the flame war I can see starting over this post. I have
nothing against the gay community. I would never deny them any of their civil
or human rights nor support anyone that did. I simply don't see how
prohibiting our Mens' team from training in a gym in the town in question
harms anyone or supports the town's policy. The sport of gymnastics has
absolutely nothing to do with the gay rights issue and IMHO it should stay
that way.

Dean

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:42:40 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: Olympic announcers

I remember someone asking who the announcers for the olympics would be NBC
has announced John Test, Tim Daggett, Elfi Schlegel and Beth Ruyak have been
named for artistic. Tesh will be anchor the coverage, daggett and schlegel
will
serve with analysis and Ruyak will be the reporter.

Don Criqui will be doing the rhythmic gymnstis, Elfi Schlegel will be the
analyst.

Mayland

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:50:57 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: MAG/Fujimoto - 1976 olympics

Also, as I am surfing the net at lunch time, I am on the NBC pages for the
games ...
There was as conversation a while back about the gymnast who competed with
a broken kneecap
Well, this is the best recount (except by Abie Grossfeld) that I have read,
heard, etc. If you have access definitely go to these pages!!!!

http://www.olympics.nbc.com/stories/fujimoto.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:34:02 -0500
From: ***@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU
Subject: Re: Mens' team in Spartanburg

I think I'd better begin this post by saying that I don't want this to turn
into a flame war, but that I do need to respond. I'll try to keep this
respectful and hope that others will as well. I'll also be happy to take
this to private email if that seems appropriate to other list members.

Dean says:

>There is so much wrong with your post I don't know where to begin.
>
>1. The USAG, USOC, AGOC, etc... should not be concerned in the least what the
>local politics of the town are. IMHO this is just so much PC nonsense. Their
>only concern should be the best interests of the team in question. Getting
>them tangentially involved in some political protest is categorically NOT in
>their best interest.

Does that mean that there should be no limits on the things a city can do
before gymnastics organizations decide they've gone too far? Should the US
team practice in a city that passes ordinances saying that Jews must wear
yellow stars? A city that passes an ordinance supporting the KKK? If the
answer to either of these is no, where do you draw the line?

>2. The assertion that 10% of the population is gay has been proven false. The
>source of this figure is a single survey of prison inmates who were asked if
>they had ever had a homosexual experience. Common sense tells us that this is
>not reflective of the state of the general population. And the census bureau
>tells us that the actual figure is more like 1-2%. I can also tell you from
>my personal experience of 17 years in gymnastics that I have met very few
>people involved in the sport who were gay. Certainly nothing resembling 10%.

Where are you getting your information from? The Masters and Johnson
survey was not about prisonsers. It was a large-scale study designed to
gather information about sexuality in general, and its results are still
considered the standard in the field, although other studies have certainly
gotten other results. I chose the 10% figure because it is still the best
accepted figure among sexuality educators. As for the census figures, I
was unaware that the census bureau gave such information. I don't remember
being asked aobut my sexual orientation on census forms. However, even if
they did have this information, it makes sense that they's be low. Would
you talk about your sexual practices on a census form if those practices
were illegal in many states?

Perhaps more importantly, let's assume you're right that gay people are
only 1-2% of the population. What would that change? You said yourself
that gay people deserve civil rights. If a city passed an ordinance
against people with one blue and one brown eye (definitely not 10% of the
population), I would not want the USAG sending gymnasts there.

>Now let me head off the flame war I can see starting over this post. I have
>nothing against the gay community. I would never deny them any of their civil
>or human rights nor support anyone that did. I simply don't see how
>prohibiting our Mens' team from training in a gym in the town in question
>harms anyone or supports the town's policy. The sport of gymnastics has
>absolutely nothing to do with the gay rights issue and IMHO it should stay
>that way.

Hmmmm. Two things. First, no one is prohibited from practicing in
Spartanburg. If some of the men on the team want to use their own free
time to go to a gym in Spartanburg and get a workout, no one will stop
them. I, for one, would not want to stop them; they have every right to do
as they wish. I doubt the men on the team feel that they, as a whole unit,
have been prohibited from going anywhere. They've had their schedule
changed, that's all.

Second, it helps a city's economy when a sports team practices there. The
US men not only work out--they also eat, rent hotel rooms, go to movies,
etc. Furthermore, people hear of the city because the team is there and
may go visit in hopes of seeing the team practice. (I realize this is more
true for football teams than gymn teams, but I can hope we attain that
status, no?) Spartanburg doesn't want the men there because it's a
gymnastics kind of town, it wants the team there because visitors are good
for the economy.

Actually, there's one more point I'd like to make. Boys who do gymnastics
catch a lot of shit about being "faggots." It takes great courage for a
boy to become a gymnast knowing the taunting he may face. Under those
circumstances, I'd think the US men's team would not want to lend even
tacit support to a homophobic ordinance.
>
>Dean

Ilene

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 14:59:40 -0400
From: ***@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: Olympic announcers

i read today in my local paper that john tesh has left 'entertainment
tonight' after a nasty dispute with nbc and that he plans to leave in
june for a 'four month, multi-city musical tour,' there was no mention
of the olympics in his future plans. this is probably wishful thinking
on my part, since i have not enjoyed his work in the past (and i think
daggett and schlegel are better when he's not there) but has anyone
heard anything about a change?

anne-marie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 07:48:01 GMT
From: ***@YUCCAMAN.DEMON.CO.UK
Subject: New Rhythmic Web Site....

There's a new web site for any Rhythmic Gymnastic fans out there. It's
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/3570/index.html

I like it, but then I'm biased (It's mine y'see !!!)

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:13:31 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Mens' team in Spartanburg

I am going to suggest that the topic of USAG vs. Spartanburg leave the
list now. It is a flame war at the sizzle stage, and I don't think
anyone wants to this to get out of hand.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:28:39 -0300
From: ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: Re: Olympic announcers

> i read today in my local paper that john tesh has left 'entertainment
> tonight' after a nasty dispute with nbc and that he plans to leave in
> june for a 'four month, multi-city musical tour,' there was no mention
> of the olympics in his future plans. this is probably wishful thinking
> on my part, since i have not enjoyed his work in the past (and i think
> daggett and schlegel are better when he's not there) but has anyone
> heard anything about a change?
>
Hi, I hope this is absolutely true! This afternoon, in preparation :), I
watched my tapes of Barcelona 92 and John Tesh just kept making
aggrevating comments ... I could go on flaming him, but bottom line in I
don't like his commentary in gymnastics coverage and I want him gone for
this year's games. Let him sing. Anyone know if he's any good as a
concert pianist? Nevermind, don't answer that. Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:29:53 EDT
From: ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Olympic announcers (fwd)

>> i read today in my local paper that john tesh has left 'entertainment
>> tonight' after a nasty dispute with nbc and that he plans to leave in
>> june for a 'four month, multi-city musical tour,' there was no mention
>> of the olympics in his future plans. this is probably wishful thinking
>> on my part, since i have not enjoyed his work in the past (and i think
>> daggett and schlegel are better when he's not there) but has anyone
>> heard anything about a change?

Lisa then said:

>Hi, I hope this is absolutely true! This afternoon, in preparation :), I
>watched my tapes of Barcelona 92 and John Tesh just kept making
>aggrevating comments ... I could go on flaming him, but bottom line in I
>don't like his commentary in gymnastics coverage and I want him gone for
>this year's games. Let him sing. Anyone know if he's any good as a
>concert pianist? Nevermind, don't answer that. Lisa

I believe he will still be doing the gymnastics commentary at the
Atlanta Olympics. And, by the way, John Tesh doesn't sing -- his music
is on the same order as Yanna's (at least to me).

Beth-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:44:46 -0300
From: ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: Re: Olympic announcers

> I remember someone asking who the announcers for the olympics would be NBC
> has announced John Test, Tim Daggett, Elfi Schlegel and Beth Ruyak have been
> named for artistic. Tesh will be anchor the coverage, daggett and schlegel
> will
> serve with analysis and Ruyak will be the reporter.
>
> Don Criqui will be doing the rhythmic gymnstis, Elfi Schlegel will be the
> analyst.
>
> Mayland
>
I look forward to having Elfi and Tim as analysts for the games. I dispar
asking the list, but I have a very horrid web browser and navigating is
near impossible. I haven't been able to get around NBC's pages well at
all. I have one simple question....are the brodcast dates for gymnastics
coverage known? i want to make sure to be on vacation for full veiwing
enjoyment, since I can't be in Atlanta :( Thanks for any help in advance,
Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:08:45 CDT
From: ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: New skill

I just thought of a new skill. I was wondering if anyone has ever
seen anything of this sort?
A full-in arabian out (to your feet)
Cool heh?!

Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:26:23 -0400
From: ***@CYKICK.ECLIPSE.NET
Subject: John Tesh

Let's see whether the server will let me post THIS time! :-)

Beth writes:
>On Fri, 17 May 1996, Anne-marie wrote:
>
>>> i read today in my local paper that john tesh has left 'entertainment
>>> tonight' after a nasty dispute with nbc and that he plans to leave in
>>> june for a 'four month, multi-city musical tour,' there was no mention
>>> of the olympics in his future plans. this is probably wishful thinking
>>> on my part, since i have not enjoyed his work in the past (and i think
>>> daggett and schlegel are better when he's not there) but has anyone
>>> heard anything about a change?
>...
>I believe he will still be doing the gymnastics commentary at the
>Atlanta Olympics. And, by the way, John Tesh doesn't sing -- his music
>is on the same order as Yanna's (at least to me).

Two corrections:

1. Tesh's "ET" dispute is NOT with NBC - that would've made things really
awkward. Actually, he had a dispute LAST YEAR with Paramount, the
syndicator of the program, over taking a few weeks off during the summer
for his music tour. I don't recall anything similar this time. From what
I read, it seemed as though he decided it was time to concentrate on either
broadcasting or music. I'd guess that you won't see much of Tesh with just
a microphone after the Olympics.
2. The music, btw, is along the lines of YANNI (different last letter). I
wouldn't mind attending one of his performances, but I'll be out of town
when it comes to NJ.

Helena

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:36:45 -0300
From: ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: Re: Olympic announcers (fwd)

On Fri, 17 May 1996, Beth wrote:

> On Fri, 17 May 1996, Anne-marie wrote:
>
> >> i read today in my local paper that john tesh has left 'entertainment
> >> tonight' after a nasty dispute with nbc and that he plans to leave in
> >> june for a 'four month, multi-city musical tour,' there was no mention
> >> of the olympics in his future plans. this is probably wishful thinking
> >> on my part, since i have not enjoyed his work in the past (and i think
> >> daggett and schlegel are better when he's not there) but has anyone
> >> heard anything about a change?
>
> Lisa then said:
>
> >Hi, I hope this is absolutely true! This afternoon, in preparation :), I
> >watched my tapes of Barcelona 92 and John Tesh just kept making
> >aggrevating comments ... I could go on flaming him, but bottom line in I
> >don't like his commentary in gymnastics coverage and I want him gone for
> >this year's games. Let him sing. Anyone know if he's any good as a
> >concert pianist? Nevermind, don't answer that. Lisa
>
> I believe he will still be doing the gymnastics commentary at the
> Atlanta Olympics. And, by the way, John Tesh doesn't sing -- his music
> is on the same order as Yanna's (at least to me).
>
> Beth-
>
Oh well, guess I can't have everything I want *pout* Hey, maybe I'll
start working on a device for my tv so that I can just mute out Tesh and
nothing else. j/k. Who is Yanna? Sorry if I'm annoying, some say it's my
nature. Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:20:02 -0400
From: ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Cobb County

Just to put in my 2 cents worth - Yes, Cobb county can be in its own little
world - I used to live there! I guess I haven't kept current on all of
this "political b.s." about the Olympics and the training sites but, since
when is being gay/lesbian/ect.ever affected who someone one is or what kind
of person and athlete they are? And when did gymnasts ever get that
stereotype? Every sport has athletes who aren't heterosexual - who cares?
THEY ARE JUST PEOPLE! When will politicians keep their noses out of
everyone else's "bedroom lives" and be more concerned with REAL
issues??????? Until then, our country will continue to be run by a bunch
of IDIOTS!!!!! (IMHO!)

Just a couple of thoughts.....

Melanie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:33:37 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Dominique in Cosmo

I got my new issue of Cosmopolitan today and there was an article about women
Olympic hopefuls. Dominique Moceanu was featured. It was just like all of the
other articles, calling her "America's best hope for a medal," etc. I was
wondering if any of these magazines know that she has been injured and hasn't
competed lately. We all know, which makes these predictions less valid, but
do they? And all of this exposure is such deja vu to '92 and Kim Zmeskal. And
it was around this time in '92 that I really started rooting for Shannon to
beat Kim, because I was so sick of hearing about her, especially when I
always liked Shannon's gymnastics more.


Ellen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:50:22 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Survival Guide for Gymnasts

First off, let me introduce myself, my name is Rik. I am a women's
gymnastics coach of many years and the author of several books on the sport
of gymnastics including "Gymnastics: A Guide for Parents and Athletes."

I am currently working on a new project titled "A Survival Guide for
Gymnasts." Anyone who has read my work in the past knows that I am not out
to bash the sport of gymnastics despite the implication of "survival" in this
book's title. The reason I am posting this note is I would like to get
feedback from coaches, gymnasts, judges, and parents on topics they would
like to see in this book. Please send your comments and ideas to me care of
my e/mail address: COACHRIK@aol.com

By the way you should all know that I have lobbied to be on the Oprah Winfrey
show for years to make sure a well rounded view of our sport was presented.
My analogy on Joan Ryan's book is that she enters a crowded movie theater
with no exits and yells "FIRE!" Sensationalizing alleged problems in one
microscopic segement of the gymnastics community is one way to sell lots of
books, however, she could have at least been a responsible journalist and
given information on how to spot these problems as they are forming and how
to deal with them before they become serious. The only thing I can tell you
is that I have been approached by talk show producers in the past and when
they found out I was not interested in trashing the sport they were not
interested in having me on the show. Moral of the story: bad news sells!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:24:12 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: '96 USRGCA Ntl Classics-Day1(long)

The opening evening of the USRGCA National Rhythmic Classics (Farmington
Hills, MI) featured Level 8 Child and Senior, performing RFX and Ball (final
events will be completed tomorrow). Unofficial results/award places were:

Level 8 Child; RFx Place Score AA Rank Day1
Emily Hayden 1 6.70
1st--13.30
Rachel Wightman 2 6.40 3rd--12.00
--------------Event Award cutoff-------
Victoria Jones 6.20
4th--11.70
Marissa Pierce 5.60
2nd--12.30


Level 8 Child; Ball Place Score
Marissa Pierce 1 6.70
Emily Hayden 2 6.40
--------------Event Award cutoff-------
Rachel Wightman 5.60 x
Victoria Jones 5.50

Level 8 Senior: RFx Place Score
Danielle Williams 1 7.15
2nd--13.15
Alexis Irion 2 6.90
1st-- 13.50
Jana Hanson 3 6.80 4th--
12.40
Elizabeth Daniels 4 6.60 5th--
12.20
Leigh Ann Trevino 5 6.45 6th--
11.85
Kristyn Kubisty 5 6.45
7th-- 11.75
Jordan Hirst 6 6.35
3rd-- 12.75
Jane Mills 7 6.10
5th-- 12.20
--------------Event Award cutoff-------
Delaney Finch 5.65
9th-- 11.35
Katie Murphy 5.55
8th-- 11.65
Elizabeth McMillen 5.10 10th--
10.40


Level 8 Senior: Ball Place Score

Alexis Irion 1 6.6
Jordan Hirst 2 6.4
Jane Mills 3 6.1
Katie Murphy 3 6.1
Danielle Williams 4 6.0
Delaney Finch 5 5.7
Jana Hanson 6 5.6
Elizabeth Daniels 6 5.6
Leigh Ann Trevino 7 5.4
--------------Event Award cutoff-------
Kristyn Kubisty 5.3
Elizabeth McMillen 5.3

<<Julia Gurevich and Brittany Brown scratched both events>>

Scores are unofficial. Jones (L8Child--Fx) and Hanson (L8Sr--Ball) set the
base pts as first in rotation. These two divisions finish tomorrow. All other
divisions perform two events Saturday and finish on Sunday...

//Don Speare

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 17 May 1996 - Special issue
**************************************************