GYMN-L Digest - 19 Sep 1995

There are 11 messages totalling 360 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. <No subject given>
2. Eating disorders article
3. Monceanu
4. world coach
5. 1996 Nationals
6. Greetings from LISA conference
7. injuries
8. Body types and ethics
9. I'm a newcomer....
10. New Topic
11. popas?

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:50:21 -0400
From: ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: <No subject given>

If I read the text correctly the problem with injuries could be due to the
wrong body type and other things.. The problem then becomes what is the
right body type. Many of people have said that S Khorkina? had the wrong
body type, well I guest she proved them wrong. I know that many people
want certain tall athletes for volleyball and basketball but look at the
people who are under five feet who have been major forces to their team
victories. However I feel that this body type business will lead to many people
being hurt and allegations of
discrimination. For example, because I am African
American many famous stupid and dumb people say that I will succeed in
track and field and basketball. (Jimmy the Greek Jack
Nickolus Roger Bannister and the whole society that thought slavery was okay
just to name a few) Nobody
says that I will succeed in gymnastics ,swimming ,ballet ,ball room ,dancing,
ice skating or any
other sports because I do not have the right body type or right muscule
structure. Who is to decide the right body
type? Who will make the rules? What makes me laugh at those people is not
their small
intellect or stupidity but becaue they can ever get anything right. One
day it is my muscles the other day it is because I am activity and do not
have the opportunity to have a white collar job. I think they are stupid.
What I really want to know is why do they spend all of their lives on a subject
that
irrevalent to the task. If you are supposed to go from point a to b
then go to point a to b. If you are are supposed to do flips and land
and stand still then do it. If I have children
should I alter my genetic structure or give my children drugs so
that I can have children with the #correct bone structure# for the sport
I want them to succeed in? People do alter their genes or take drugs,
it is a growing market.
This subject was brought up in my medical ethics
class in philosophy and I want to bring it up in my race and ethnicity class.
Thanks to the person who brought it up because 1. I was thinking about
this subject for a long time 2. This is a good topic to discuss because
it ties all of the problems that have occured in the last couple of
years.

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:50:40 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Eating disorders article

Well, since Jennifer posted this on all of Gymn, I am replying to all
of Gymn also:

| *grins* I know I'm asking for it, but here we go anyway. I recently
| had an article on eating disorders published in our school newspaper.

You are the author, so unless your school newspaper editor is awfully
stingy, I don't see anything preventing you from posting it on Gymn.

| On the same thread, I'm like to type in an editorial that was in
| IG regarding Sandy Woolsey's dismissal/non-selection to the 1991
| team. Is that possible as well?

Contact Dwight Normile, the editor of IG, and tell him what you want
to post and why you want to post it. If he gives you permission to
redistribute it, then you can post it with the tagline that IG has
given you permission to redistribute/reproduce the article.

Most copyright questions can be answered by reading the no-nonsense
"Copyright Myths" FAQ on the news.announce.newusers newsgroup. I have
a link to it's spot on the WWW on my personal home page which you can
reach via the Gymn pages. (I think the link is on my home page... it
might be on the "More about Gymn" page... I forget...)

Rachele

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:10:24 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Monceanu

| All this talk about what Monceanu did on th FX at World trials and Nationals
| makes me wonder: Anyone know what she can do? People said Bela was talking
| like this was the very watered down routine. Can Monceanu do layout double
| sides or something else?
|
| Anyone know what her "true" difficulty is?

Well, in exhibitions she throws a double layout (or at least she did
at Superstars in Philly).

I have not seen it, but I've heard, from many people, that she can do
a running double front also.

Rachele

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:17:55 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: world coach

| that the men's Olympic coach was already picked, and yet the women's
| world coach is still unsure. If it were to be Karolyi and Nunno (each

The men and women always do things differently because they're rules
are decided by separate committees.

| with only one athlete, granted that they are the top two), what rationale
| would be behind the exclusion of Forster (with three athletes, if Dawes

Does anyone know if Forster has ever coached an athlete at a World
Championships before? If he hasn't, then that would be a good one
reason right there. (And why are people on Gymn talking about only
Tom -- Lori Forster does as much coaching as he does!)

| withdraws)? Also, do the athletes get any say in who is chosen? If a
| vote is used, is it by the coaches of the team members or by USA
| gymnastics officials?

Athletes do not get a say, as far as I know. I thought actually that
the women's coach had not been picked yet and that the coaches were
supposed to decide amongst themselves who would be the head. (??)

Rachele

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:20:16 -0400
From: ***@PHOENIX.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: 1996 Nationals

On the last gymn calender, I noted the dates of the '96 American Classic
and the Olympic Trials. Have USA Championships not been scheduled yet?
-emily

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:34:45 -0700
From: ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Greetings from LISA conference

Some of the folks on this list are sysadmins.
Any of you attending the LISA conference
(Large Installation Systems Administration)
Look for Texx on the staff of the terminal room.

Sorry this was off topic, but it was a chance to meet other gymners
if they are here, I KNOW im not the ONLY syssadmin on this list.

MANSON ! You should be here !

-texx

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:35:56 -0600
From: ***@HARRIER.SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: Re: injuries

Hi again,

Thought I might strike a nerve with someone on that post, since I didn't
spend a whole lot of time writing it, nor did I have time to make sure
I was clearly stating my point.

Quotes (">") in this post are excerpts of a message from Ameera Butler.

>However I feel that this body type business will lead to many people
> being hurt and allegations of discrimination. For example, because I am
>African American many famous stupid and dumb people say that I will succeed in
>track and field and basketball. (Jimmy the Greek Jack
>Nickolus Roger Bannister and the whole society that thought slavery was okay
> just to name a few) Nobody says that I will succeed in gymnastics
,swimming >,ballet ,ball room ,dancing, ice skating or any
>other sports because I do not have the right body type or right muscule
> structure. Who is to decide the right body type? Who will make the rules?

-I did NOT say that there is a specific body type for gymnastics. I am
also NOT saying that someone with a so-called "wrong body type" shouldn't
or can't do gymnastics. Gymnastics is for EVERYONE! What I am saying
is that someone who may have some kind of skeletal problem (joint,
vertebral, etc.) could be putting themself at great risk for injury or
longterm disability by training the hours required to be an elite
gymnast. The end. I am NOT referring to body size or shape. The
subject was injuries, not body type nor build nor muscles.


>What makes me laugh at those people is not their small
>intellect or stupidity but becaue they can ever get anything right. One
>day it is my muscles the other day it is because I am activity and do not
>have the opportunity to have a white collar job. I think they are stupid.
>What I really want to know is why do they spend all of their lives on a subject
> that irrevalent to the task.

-Is this a direct attack at myself? It is clearly off topic and has
nothing to do with the subject. While the business of body/muscle type
is certainly (or should be) irrelevant to gymnastics, the issue of a skeletal
problem is not. I know several gymnasts personally that were forced to quit
the sport, or else face the risk of permanent injury or disability. That is
hardly an irrelevant issue.


>If you are supposed to go from point a to b
>then go to point a to b. If you are are supposed to do flips and land
>and stand still then do it. If I have children
>should I alter my genetic structure or give my children drugs so
>that I can have children with the #correct bone structure# for the sport
>I want them to succeed in? People do alter their genes or take drugs,
>it is a growing market.

-This was not the intention of my message. I'm not saying that someone
with a bone structure problem can't/shouldn't do gymnastics. However,
it may not be *healthy* for that person to perform intense training.


> This subject was brought up in my medical ethics
>class in philosophy and I want to bring it up in my race and ethnicity class.
>Thanks to the person who brought it up because 1. I was thinking about
>this subject for a long time 2. This is a good topic to discuss because
>it ties all of the problems that have occured in the last couple of years.

-I see the connection. However, it is a bit off from the original
intention of my message. I'm sorry I didn't make myself more clear.
I do not have a problem with anyone doing gymnastics and I'm sorry if
I came across that way in my original post.


DORY

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:00:33 -0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: Body types and ethics

Date sent: 19-SEP-1995 19:56:14

1) I agree that there is no set body type for gymnastics. This reminds
me very much of the debate surrounding Shannon Miller and Kim Zmeskal
back in 1992. There was a lot of speculation regarding who was the
better athlete, Miller or Zmeskal, the purist vs. the athlete. I think
there is room for both in the sport.

2)Regarding body types, however, I agree with Dory when she says that
there are some athletes whose bodies seem to be too fragile for the sport,
and there has to be some line drawn on where you should stop competing.
The best cases of this I can think of go all the way back to the 1970's.
Specifically, I am thinking of Leslie Russo, who always seemed to be one
of the top athletes around, but never managed to stay healthy. And I am
also thinking of a Stephanie someone. I do not remember her last name, but
she was forced to retire after a back problem came to bear and it was
determined that if she continued in the sport that she could cause herself
permanent injury.

Make of this what you will.

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:07:51 -0500
From: ***@LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject: I'm a newcomer....

Hi everybody! I'm a newcomer on this mailing list and wanted to introduce
myself. My name is Meighan, I'm 20 and am a theatre student at Northwestern
University. I quit gymnastics when I was 12, but have remained an avid fan
ever since (still do a little tumbling in my spare time :)

Has anyone read Little Girls in Pretty Boxes; the Making and Breaking of
America's Elite Gymnasts and Figure Skaters? It's a truly fascinating inside
look at all of our favorites from past years, including Kim Zmeskal, Erica
Stokes, Kristie Phillips and Chelle Stack, to name a few. It also talks a lot
about injuries and how they are becoming more severe with the ever-rising
level of difficulty in the sport. I recommend it to anyone interested in
gymnastics-- it's only available in hardback, and should be at most
bookstores.

I would love to read the article about Sandy Woolsey; I know there has been
some talk about it on this list. I also wondered about a gymnast I haven't
heard about since the 1990 Mixed Pairs-- does anyone know what happened to
Hilary Grivach?

Thanks!

--Meighan ;)

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:59:38 -0500
From: ***@INDIANA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Topic

About these injuries . . . . I'm sure if you try hard enough, you will
find some literature saying "gymnastics hurts people". Little bodies are
not made to flip three time in the air and land on the feet. (That's cats.)

I got a stress fracture in my lower back in college from gymnastics and
my Orthepedist told me he is seeing me children and teens with injuries
from gymnastics. Any comments?


> Date sent: 19-SEP-1995 09:07:25
>
> Someone just opened a new topic for discussion. I think it is very
> noteworthy to point out that a lot of gymnasts are out injured, and
> it is certainly not new that people are commenting on it (IG made the
> point after the 1994 individual worlds that the new Code was forcing
> gymnasts to try new and harder skills, and thus getting injured).
> But, I think right now, in the case of the US, most of them are fluke
> injuries. Dawes has a stress fracture, which, to my understanindg,
> is the result of time. Powell tripped over a mat, for goodness sake,
> which caused the original injury and probably got the sparined ankle
> trying to protect the knee.As for Jennie Thompson, my personal belief
> about the girl is that she and her coches pushed her too hard, too soon.
> Right now, I think it is a matter of bad luck at a very inconvient
> time. Minor injuries are a way of life in gymnastics.

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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:33:53 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: popas?

Can anyone explain to me what a popa is and why it is so unusual for Khorkina
not to do any?
Thanks,
Liz

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 19 Sep 1995
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