GYMN-L Digest - 22 May 1996 to 23 May 1996

There are 14 messages totalling 481 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. What is this all about?
2. bars transitions
3. Women Athletes
4. Introduction
5. DUH! - Gymnast on Reading Rainbow
6. <No subject given>
7. 97 code changes
8. End of Marinescu, Moceanu debate
9. gymnastics.....what else?
10. SORRY... :(
11. Oprah
12. Irreverent Trivia For Prizes!!!
13. The Book
14. Joan Ryan/Oprah

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:04:42 -0400
From: ***@UKY.CAMPUS.MCI.NET
Subject: Re: What is this all about?

>Dear All,
>
>I agree with Kris whole heartedly. I might add, as an attorney, some of
these posts may come dangerously close to defamation per se. In other
words, Mike, if Bart wanted to sue, I'd take his case. Gymnasts, whether
male or female, have a right to privacy. If this DG disentegrates to
nothing more than a forum for gossip about the private lives of the
gymnasts, we do a disservice to the gymnasts, the sport, ourselves, and
everyone who has devoted so much time and energy to malink this list the
*great* forum that it is. Just my $0.02
>
>Chris Johnson
>
>
>>> Where did homosexuality come in to the issue? Are there some openly
>>> gay gymnasts on our men's team. I know that some are married and have
>>> steady girlfriends, so it really surprised me to see this.
>>
>>This is what I was afraid of...to my knowledge the men's gymnastics team is
>>heterosexual. However, their sexuality has NOTHING to do with the issues
of the
>>Spartanburg officials.
>>
>>You can find a press release on this at http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/usag/
>> under the
>>men's program, by clicking on the male gymnast in the logo.
>>
>>This forum is not to "out" anyone that you may have question about, which
is why
>> I
>>suggested in the first place to drop the subject. It is now dangerously close
>> to this
>>point, with some of Mike Mayzak's previous comments. So continue to speak
about
>> the
>>politics, but leave names and initials off the forum.
>>
>>Kris Bagiu

Chris

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:12:00 EDT
From: ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: bars transitions

I agree with Pandora/Joy's opinion that transitions in which a gymnast
stands on the low bar to get to the high bar are AWFUL.

Personally, I think poor coaching is the only reason they're still around.

I've seen gymnasts of EVERY size and shape make nice if not beautiful
transitions -- Georgia, one of the top bars teams in the country, competes
gymnasts from 4'10" to 5'8" and not one of them stands on the low bar.


P.S. -- If those of you responding to other posts would just PARAPHRASE
(see my example above) instead of re-printing gobs of the original, it would
save TREMENDOUS amounts of space and vaulable reading time.

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:34:42 -0400
From: ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: Women Athletes

Just my two cents....
After reading alot of the posts about quiet/subservient girls, and the
USGA instructional meeting on "how to deal with the media", I have to say
that women athletes in general, and not just gymnasts, are generally
compelled to portray themselves as "unassuming, and uncontroversial"
athletes as they can possibly be. Remember, alot of other sports, like
figure skating, is subjected to these stereotypes of what a person of the
female race should act like in public. I must interject and put that men
do have this problem also, but, for women, it is especially prevalent.
Now, I know alot of you..shall we say... "dislike"... figure skater Nancy
Kerrigan.. ( I know this particular athlete has had her share of media
"publicity", but that's the only example that is coming to mind right
now). After she won the silver, after the competition was over, and she
was waiting for the medal ceremonies...yes, those comments are exactly
what I'm talking about. Even though what she said, or didn't say, may
have been a little rude, although IMHO it wasn't, she was basically
lambasted and put out to dry by the media. Oh my goodness, our little
Snow White suddenly turned into a real person with feelings and her own
mind....
Gymnastics is not immune to this. In a lot of sports where women
have made great strides in becoming more and more part of coaching, and
getting higher and higher in the eschelons of these sports, these kinds
of things will go away. Although I do believe that athletes should be
held accountable, just like anyone else, for things they say in public.
They just have to be more mindful of the ever watching, ever hearing
reporters and cameras. Moceanu and Marinescu, and others, are just
teenagers. That is definitely not an excuse, but in a place where
sometimes the "bouncy, ever vivacious, ever smiling" athlete gets more
coverage, comments and quotes like that can easily be taken way out of
proportion, and also try to break the stereotype that the way a "good,
upstanding, excelling academically, well known athlete gets respected and
be successful, is to be portrayed as what I see as an example of what all
Americans, and people in the world should strive to be.
I would very much like your input.
There.
I'm done.

Valerie

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:43:56 -0600
From: ***@MARCELINE.K12.MO.US
Subject: Introduction

Hello! I am a new member of this chat group and I was told to introduce
myself in a couple of paragraphs. So, here goes!

I'm 14 years old and I currently compete in a state gymnastics league. I
just completed my first year at Level 5, finishing 5th on floor exercise at
championships last Saturday. I love to watch competetive and elite
gymnastics on TV and at the local college. My favorite gymnasts are Kim
Zmeskal and Dominique Moceaneu. I finish the eighth grade tomorrow (-: and
I plan to be in a performing gymnastics group this summer. Well, there's
not much left to say, so thanks for reading this!


Allie

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:42:29 -0400
From: ***@HICOM.NET
Subject: DUH! - Gymnast on Reading Rainbow

Howdy GYMNers:

Re the message that I wrote:

>Could it have been Sandy Woolsey? She was a Desert Devil, and a US competitor
>>at that time...

>>Michele

A big DUH! for me! I sent the above Reading Rainbow suggestion BEFORE I found
the real answer (Elizabeth Crandall, as one astute list member pointed out). I
think some of the lawyers on the list might say that the question was already
'asked and answered' by the time I posted. Sorry for the inconvenience to you
GYMNERS. I will work on my netiquette:)

Yours humbly,
Michele

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:50:48 -0400
From: ***@HICOM.NET
Subject: <No subject given>

Hi again, GYMNers:

Re Pandora's message:

>>I so much wish that Kathy Johnson and Bart Conner were the Olympic TV
>>Commentators. I find Elfi and Tim rather annoying, especially when they
>>restate the same thing 10 million times. ("But you've just gotta stick the
>>landing!" in Dagget's voice gives me nightmares...) John Tesh is just plain
>>DUMB when it comes to gymnastics. He's just there as a mediator and a nice
>>voice. I remember he made a comment about Boginskaya during Barcelona that
>>was really offensive, something about her being very attractive...


I'm with you regarding Tim & Elfi. We talked about this a few months ago on the
list, but they will forever strike me more as 'negative' than merely
'realistic.'

You wanna hear some *really* offensive commentating? Just listen to Gordon
Maddux (sp?) call some of the older meets ('older' for me, anyway--'72 Olympics,
'78 Worlds, '85 Olympic Sports Festival come to mind...). Things like 'Now
you're cookin,' baby!' and 'She's a real pretty gal, too' and other remarks
about gymnasts' looks. I keep telling myself that times were different then,
but still, I liken listening to him to fingernails grating on the chalkboard...

Ciao, for now,

Michele

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:58:24 PDT
From: ***@TIBCO.COM
Subject: Re: 97 code changes

>and the elite women start at a 9.0. And so many elements devalued. Double lay
>out on bars=d giant full bars =c and almost all fronts on floor knocked down
>also. Front full on vault 10 to a 9.6.<

The point SHOULD be to reward the difficult skills done well. The double
layout off bars is already obsolete, full-twisting double layouts are
becoming common and already there is a gymnast doing a double-twisting
double layout. The gymnasts should be rewarded for ATTEMPTING such a
difficult move, then whatever deductions they incurred should be marked off
their score. This way a gymnast with incredible but sloppy skills is on a
par with a gymnast with not-the-most-difficult but impeccable gymnastics.
This would work ONLY if the judges were strict on deducting for form errors
(which they're not).

>Does anyone think this is not good for the future of gymnastics?<

Whatis not good for the future of the sport is all the gymnasts doing the
same moves, which is what will happen if the easier skills get the high
ratings. Why do you think the "Phelps" (Tsuk- half turn "layout" front)
vault is so common now? It is an easy way to get a 10.00 vault. Same as
the Hristakieva was.

The FIG should take a cue from diving: Difficulty x Execution. I also think
artistic impression should be worked in (real artistic impression).

If this is the case, the best would win. And there are gymnasts who have
all three: difficulty, form, and artisty (Kochetkova, Mo Huilan, Khorkina,
etc).
--
Amanda

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:58:50 -0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject: End of Marinescu, Moceanu debate

OK I concede. It was my opinion and I am allowed to feel that way. IMO,
Marinescu is obnoxious. BUT since I have never met her and have never
spoken to her, I agree that my opinion is unfounded. Perhaps it would
have been better to say that she is not my favprite gymnast, and by the
way Neither is Moceanu. I can't stress enough, that I DON'T think
Moceanu will win, or even medal in the AA in Atlanta. However I do
believe that Marinescu can medal on the Beam in Atlanta. Can we just
chalk it up to a difference in opinions?
I agree with whoever said that Mina Kim sounded like a robot at the Mixed
Pairs. She was trained not only in gymnastics, but in what to say from
Steve Nunno.
Can someone please tell me how Pod was upsetting everyone at The euro's
party. She is my favorite and seems so sweet and happy, I don't know how
she could upset anyone.
Alisa

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:49:59 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: gymnastics.....what else?

Hi everybody out there in gymnastics land!

I am a nineteen year old college student in the process of checking out
schools with gymnastic programs. Since I just began gym 3 years ago, I am
still learning something new every day in the gym. I plan on competing as a
floor specialist. I am working on and perfecting double backs, fulls, front
fulls, arabians, ect. The schools I am looking at are William and Mary and
James Madison University in Virginia. If anyone knows any info about the
admissions process and gymnastic teams, write me! I am also planning on
applying to some small time schools just in case such as Springfield college
in Mass.
Thanks!
John

PS - I want to thank everyone who has written to me with advice, especially
MAYLAND, you've been terrific!

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:06:35 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: SORRY... :(

I need to apologize for getting a little excited about the "threads"
concerning the SC training issues...

I spreading "noise" and "rumors" about things I don't have any factual
information about...

I will get a life and keep these comments to myself.

Mike

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:25:31 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Oprah

Haven't posted on the subject in a while, but since the Australians just got
a chance to see it, let me reiterate some of the problems with the show.

If Oprah was intending on reviewing the book, and presenting that side, OK.
Unfortunately, she represented to US that she would be doing a balanced
portrayal,
and would give us the opportunity to present our side. She did neither. She
used our gym, and did some really nasty editing of our kids to present the
side SHE wanted.
Our gymnasts were used and hurt by this woman, who pretends to be against
child abuse. Yet she was perfectly happy to use her forum to abuse the trust
these girls had placed in her.

John

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:26:12 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Irreverent Trivia For Prizes!!!

A few people have asked when Gymn would see the next Trivia set. Therefore,
I decided to do a little something different and put together a totally
random trivia quiz! I used the first 8 questions that popped into my puny
brain :-) And yes . . . I'm the one to yell at if you find a problem with
any of the questions ;-)

A perfect score is 10 points.

First prize: Book - Olympic Heroes: Ludmila Turischeva (1979), Viktor
Golubev 42 pp., photos, paperback. English translation

Second prize: a 5x7 autographed photo of Milosovici (1991)

First, here are the Rules, then the Quiz follows! Closing time is Friday at
5pm EST :-)

Mara

**********
*RULES*
1. Participants have will have a set period of time [which will be
prominently included in the Quiz posting] to return entries. Any entries
"postmarked (i.e. e-mail dated)" after that deadline will not be considered.
Time sent is Eastern Standard Time (US). I'll take time zones into
calculation, don't worry Aussies, you won't lose out<g>!
2. Winners and placements will be determined as follows:
a. One point for each correct answer
b. Highest point total from eligible entries wins. In the event of a tie,
the *earlier* entry wins. In other words, the faster you get it in, the
better!
c. If you enter more than once, the *later* of the entries will count. Your
other, earlier entries will be discarded.
d. Winners will be mailed their prizes to an address they provide.
e. If an answer is disputed (the loss of which resulted in the loss of a
prize), the matter may be presented for appeal. It will be researched, and a
final decision will be voted on by:
--Gymn Administrator Rachele
--Gymn Administrator Debbie
--Trivia Coordinator Mara

All such votes/decisions are final.

3. Results will be posted within 48 hours of the closing time, unless
previously stated.
4. These rules may be changed at any time, with prior posted notice on Gymn.
5. All rights reserved.

*************

1. Name the only team to score 3 successive 10.0s in a Worlds or Olympic
Competition (one point each for gender/country and year of this achievement).

2. Who was the first "star" of gymnastics in the modern Olympic Games [1896
on]. (one point each for name and nationality)

3. Name the famous twins of RSG in the late 1980s (one point)

4. During US network ABC's broadcast of the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, what
did "commentator" Jack Whittaker (usually a golf analyst) repeatedly call the
Balance Beam? (one point)

5. Who was the first gymnast to land a triple-back on FX? (one point)

6. What two gymnasts from different countries wore alike and extremely
unusual leotards in the 1992 Olympic Games? (one point)

7. Who was the 1978 Romanian Women's AA Champ? Which gymnast finishing in
the top five had already competed in two Olympics? (one point for each part)

8. Which twins competed on their country's national team for years, only to
have one miss the competition where his/her sibling won the World AA crown?
(one point)

Enjoy!

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:33:53 -0500
From: ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: The Book

I'm kind of flipping throught _Little_Girls_In_Pretty_Boxes_ right now
and got a chuckle over the beginning of the final chapter. Ryan talks
about cute little Michelle Kwan in 1993 and then how the evil puberty
affected her skating and she wasn't able to do what she was once able to
making her less cute and quickly replace. Interesting how this over the
hill girl (well that's how ryan seems to paint it) won the world
championships this year.

Yes I know this is the gymn list, but just thought it was a good ha, ha
to Joan Ryan.

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Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 02:43:14 -0400
From: ***@PIPELINE.COM
Subject: Joan Ryan/Oprah

After reading way too many excited mails over what people consider the
"outrage" that is supposedly Joan Ryan's book, I will only say the
following:

1. No one on Oprah, or any of the USAG, have denied ANY of the assertions
that Ms. Ryan makes in her book.

2. She quotes, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, many of the top US gymnasts of the past
decade. Their own examples make all her points for her.

3. I, personally, did not learn one new thing in the entire gymnastic
section of the book. These are all well-known and well-documented stories.
If you feel they show gymnastics in a bad light, that is the fault of
gymnastics, not Ms. Ryan.

4. If you were not aware of the stories of which you read, you are spending
too much time reading USAG press releases, and not enough time really
learning about our sport.

5. Yes, gymnastics is a wonderful sport. And yes, the vast majority of
participants, nationwide, have healthy, rewarding experiences with it. But
at the highest elite level, it can be a shark tank, where the nastiest,
hungriest sharks eat up the smaller ones. You will find that that is the
unfortunate case in any business where money and media are deeply
intertwined. Trying to pretend that it doesn't exist only covers up the
problem and allows it to fester. Heaping scorn and rage on someone
objectively trying to expose the problem is just as bad. Let's concentrate
on taking steps to change the problems our sport has, not denying them.

Regards,

Eric

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 22 May 1996 to 23 May 1996
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