GYMN-L Digest - 25 Jul 1996 to 26 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 18 messages totalling 651 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. Good old BBC
2. Not about the Olympics
3. Georgia Dome Crowd
4. Steve Nuno (2)
5. WAG AA - spoiler (2)
6. NBC(good) & Americans(not so)
7. Rosa/Dawes floor scores???
8. EF Qualifiers???
9. General Observations
10. Women AA - Mo's Beam
11. Strug considers $$$
12. Tousek
13. Olympics on NBC
14. Tesh, NBC, & Hooking in New Fans
15. Romanians
16. WAG Coverage, John Tesh, and tape request

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:59:19 -0400
From: ***@HICOM.NET
Subject: Re: Good old BBC

Howdy:

Re your post to GYMN-L:

>>Hello all from the UK,


>>I don't believe it ! We are getting hours, yes hours of live gymnastics
>>coverage over here ! :)


>>What a team competition, and what a team to win it ! The last time I saw
>>Shannon Miller and Dominique Dawes was at the Worlds in Birmingham, England.
>>From their performances they are getting better and better. I have been on the
>>Gymn forum for some time and have only really learned about the American
>>gymnasts from the posts. Now I can put the gymnasts to the names ( by
>>courtesy of the Beeb )

>>What impressed me as well was the team spirit and the very high self esteem of
>>all the the American team, which I'm sure very nearly was blown away if poor
>>old Kerri hadn't stuck her last landing ! My heart, and I am sure millions of
>>others around the world, went out to her as she collasped on the mat.


>>Well done USA, what a show !!

>>Must go now as the LIVE optional coverage is about to start !




>>John

STOP!!! You're torturing me...;)

Sincerely,
Michele

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:46:30 -0400
From: ***@USA.NAI.NET
Subject: Re: Not about the Olympics

Trinity Simons wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would help me with getting my
> full? I'm just a young gymnast, tumbler mostly, and a full is what I'm
> really lacking. My coach has been trying to help me, but I just can't seem
> to pick up on it. Could someone who can do a pretty good one explain it to me?
>
> Thanx in Advance,
> Trinity

If you wouldn't mind, pass it along to my daughter who's also having a
hard time with her full.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:34:29 -0500
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Georgia Dome Crowd

I attended men's and women's podium training and both sessions of women's
compulsories last week, and I must say in defense of the crowd that there was
a lot of cheering going on for other teams. Svetlana Boguinskaya received
applause almost every time she was in view.

The problem, as someone else pointed out, was trying to follow more than one
thing at a time. I was trying to keep track of scores (and watch the
routines) of the teams which I anticipated would be in the top six. I didn't
have too much trouble in the sessions where only one of those teams was
competing at a time, but trying to closely follow two teams at the same time
was quite difficult. The scores didn't last long on the scoreboard. I
missed a lot of good routines, I know. I was actively trying to see
Choussovitina's (sp?) routines, but I only caught one of them.

Even for the podium training and compulsories, where you would expect to find
the more "hard core" fans, the audience was not a very educated one. Sample
comments overheard: At women's podium training, pointing to p-bars: "What
are those and how come nobody's used 'em yet?" Pointing to Jaycie Phelps:
"Look! There's Shannon!" And my personal favorite, "Will we see that coach,
Bela Lugosi or whatever his name is?"

Dani

Congrats to Dom Dawes!!! (I'm carefully avoiding finding out how she did in
AA until I can see it tonight).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:07:03 -0400
From: ***@GARDEN.NET
Subject: Steve Nuno

Okay, I'm on this list in digest form at the moment,
so about a million people have probably already posted
this, but I'm so damn mad I just had to write
*something*!!!!

Is it possible that Steve Nuno is THE most insensitive
person on the fact of the entire earth?????

I've never seen Shannon cry like that at a competition,
and for him to stand there and tell her what she did
*wrong* . . . and then tell her to "suck it up and stop
crying". . . .

Too mad. . . . can't type. . .

Liz

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:18:24 -0400
From: ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: WAG AA - spoiler

don't look :)0






Watching how Galieva had to do fx with that loud crowd noise - i truly
felt sorry for the non american gymnasts - that must be so unnerving.

Regarding Nunno after Miller's routine - I agree, he shouldn't have
mentioned what she did wrong, but at least he said it quietly and
understanding - and not condescending...but he shouldn't have told her to
stop crying -even though she needed to compose herself...it was so
heartbreaking to see miller go from grinning after the beam, to bawling
after fx. I feel sad to see her finish AA like that. But then at vault
to look at her while she was crying and say the way he did "what's wrong"
and ignore the fact that she was so stunned still that she couldn't
compose herself....ugh... Miller is such a classy gymnast. I hope she
wins gold on Beam.

I don't think Amanar should be in AA, let alone win a medal....it is just
like Gutsu in 92. I would love to hear what Marinescu did in response
after all that she has said this year. Amanar is a great gymnast - but
she fell in compulsories - so she shouldn't be in the AA, it is that
simple, she didn't qualify.

Kotchekova was beautiful on beam and floor - i am soooo sad she didn't
win a medal....ditto for Mo.

Khorkina seemed to have a bad meet - especially with the fall on bars.

Well this close competition truly shows how much talent there is out
there right now. Initially it looked like Dawes, then Miller, then Mo,
then Kotchekova, then Milo - - then Pods :)

I truly love Pods and am happy she won. She is such a beautiful dancer
and such a hard worker. It is a well-earned medal. The best part was
that on floor, her final event...no one talked!!! I got the opportunity
to sit back and relax and enjoy her gymnastics.

I was suprised to
see the Romanians go 2 and 3. I wish Kotchekova would have gotten at
least silver, but lost it with the vault.

The best part of this broadcast was seeing everyone console/congratulate
each other - the best pods/milo and pods/piskoun.

One last point regarding the team comp. I was truly proud that the US
won, because for the first time they performed as a team. In worlds and
especially at Barcelona, it wasn't as a team. I think the US women were
ment to win team gold this time and that that effort was to overshadow
individual acheivement.

Can't wait till EF.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:37:44 -0700
From: ***@PRIS.BC.CA
Subject: NBC(good) & Americans(not so)

Well, so far I have done absolutely no American or NBC bashing. Well It's
time to break my silence. I think NBC did an excellent job tonight,
covering the whole story. Maybe they're listening, or maybe there just not
so bad.

The thing that really is making me speak is the fact that the American fans,
were extremly ignorant at the competition tonight. First of all, the noise
made during other athletes routines was absolutely disgusting. I mean come
on guys, at least pretend to be welcoming the other athletes, and just not
trying to drain their money. The noise level was sickening.

Another point I want to bring up, is the poor sportsmanship that the
American fans were portraying. Gymnastics is supposed to be unlike NFL NHL
or NBA, it is supposed to be a classy sport, like PGA, or something along
that line. I could not imagine having these fans at a Masters or Skins
game. You also gota admit it's bad when Tesh, and company make comments
about crowd noise.

One more negative thing I gotta throw in, and this one is at NBC. I think
it was fairly ignorant to Show Shannon Miller with Steve Nunno, when they
were discussing her disastrous routine, that's just media in General though,
C'est Lavi.

Flame Away

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:31:29 -0400
From: ***@TRISTATE.PGH.NET
Subject: Rosa/Dawes floor scores???

I know that the crowd was exceptionally loud during her routine, but
watching it, she did not seem to make any major breaks, or to lose her place
with her music. Can someone tell me what deductions they took to give her
such a low score, like a 9.6 something.
Also with Dawes, I thought that she only had the one major deduction, the
fall...isn't that a .5? Where did they come up with a 9.0???
LeeAnne

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:49:34 -0400
From: ***@TRISTATE.PGH.NET
Subject: EF Qualifiers???

Can someone please repost or email me privately with the lists of EF
qualifers on each apparatus. My computer chose yesterday to beging eating
my email while I was in the process of reading it. Thanks in advance!
LeeAnne

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:55:00 -0400
From: ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: WAG AA - spoiler

>I don't think Amanar should be in AA, let alone win a medal....it is just
>like Gutsu in 92. I would love to hear what Marinescu did in response
>after all that she has said this year.

If she's interviewed, I'm sure she'll say something :) She seemed
reasonably happy in the stands, though.

>Kotchekova was beautiful on beam and floor - i am soooo sad she didn't
>win a medal....ditto for Mo.
>
>Khorkina seemed to have a bad meet - especially with the fall on bars.
>
>Well this close competition truly shows how much talent there is out
>there right now. Initially it looked like Dawes, then Miller, then Mo,
>then Kotchekova, then Milo - - then Pods :)
>
>I truly love Pods and am happy she won. She is such a beautiful dancer
>and such a hard worker. It is a well-earned medal. The best part was
>that on floor, her final event...no one talked!!! I got the opportunity
>to sit back and relax and enjoy her gymnastics.
>
>I was suprised to
>see the Romanians go 2 and 3. I wish Kotchekova would have gotten at
>least silver, but lost it with the vault.

This was such a close meet... Pods was truly deserving with her
routines... beautiful! And everyone else was making it close at the top (a
few scores bothered me, but it was still very tight). Gogean's pulling the
silver was a bit of a surprise, but it's good to know that she's performing
pretty well after her own injuries.

>The best part of this broadcast was seeing everyone console/congratulate
>each other - the best pods/milo and pods/piskoun.

They seemed truly happy for her--great moment. I feel bad for Dawes
and Miller both having a bad FX, and they seemed really *gone*. Hill seemed
more supportive than Nunno, but how much could they do to buoy them up after
that? :(

Once more, a short wish list for NBC--though they appeared to have a
more varied presentation this time, there were still shortfalls--Gogean
dropped off the map after her passable UB routine, and we saw her on vault,
but what about beam and FX? Same with Khorkina, who ended up with the
"falling off" quick shot--you could hear the gasp in the background, and I
winced. Spotty for the others.
Most important of all--where did the medals ceremony go? NOTHING.
The event just faded into oblivion, only one final score recap and the
boradcast was outta there. I wonder when the interview with President and
Mrs. Clinton was done? Was that live or "plausibly live?" Closimg moment,
*good for the home crowd,* was the US women's relay team's medal ceremony...
again, nice to give all the viewers some Americans-on-the-medal-stand
consolation, and I can see why that was done, but in the four and a half
hours of broadcast time, showing the AA medals ceremony or even the
Ukrainian national anthem at some accelerated pace would have chewed up
what, a minute, before the Clinton interview perhaps?

Still a terrific competition, great routines and good camaraderie
between the competitors... just missing one moment that would have closed it
out well.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:08:00 EDT
From: ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: General Observations

During these games I have wondered about some of the individual scores
on both the men's and women's sides. Some too high, some too low, some
just right (Goldilocks meets Gymnastics). But...

The judges have done a GREAT job at keeping scores down, i.e. not
inflated. I don't know if the code helped this or not, but during my
lifetime (1976-present), I have never seen an Olympic competition that
kept the scores so reasonable. Sure, it had been getting better (only 2
10's in 1992), but there was still no room to go with astonishing
routines. I am so very happy that the scores are reasonable, leaving
room without failing to reward most who deserve it.

And the best thing is--THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MEDALED HAVE ALL DESERVED TO.
The placement of the teams and individuals is just the way it should be.
Reputation isn't carrying gymnasts anymore. I am just so happy with
this, especially after the men's and women's AA finals. What deserving
champions, and what a great competition. All of the competitors and the
people involved should be very, very proud!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:10:58 -0600
From: ***@SUPERNET.AB.CA
Subject: Women AA - Mo's Beam

I have a big ?

Where did they come up with 9.8? She had at least 1.5-2 tenths off for
the dismount alone. Don't get me wrong. I love Mo, but .... really.

This score was out. And so was Dawes 9.000 on floor? Where did they
get that from.

Kel

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:11:00 EDT
From: ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Strug considers $$$

As of today, Kerri is strongly considering renouncing her collegiate
eligibility so that she can make the best of these opportunities. Kerri
herself said that she really wants to tour with the team now--I think
that says something about the unity of the US team. Are ANY of them
going to remain eligible? I think Amy and Jaycie were the only 2
left...

Any other info people hear would be greatly appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:21:08 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Tousek

>CBC just showed Tousek on bars and beam - 9.1 and 9.575, i believe. Now
>i understand why so many are excited about her...beautiful beam routine -
>it seemed so effortless. she has a beautiful style and grace about her.
>
It was too bad about Tousek's bars routine (I've yet to see her hit), but she
was solid on beam, as Anjel mentioned, Floor (9.625!!!!!!), and vault (9.493).
She wound up 26th, which I consider to be an excellent showing for her,,
especially
since Yvonne's really only been on the international scene since 1995.
I'm very very very proud of her!!!!!!!!

Jordynn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:21:11 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Olympics on NBC

I saw this on my ballet mailing list, of all places and thought it
was, um, interesting:


>Let s protest against NBC
>
>NBC shows SOAP OPERA instead of OLYMPIC GAMES during the games
>NBC doesn t show all the sports
>NBC never or almost never shows the scoreboard
>NBC never shows all the participants
>NBC doesn t show who got what place beyond the fourth place
>NBC shows news updates during the GAMES
>NBC shows some stupid stories instead of the Olympics during the Olympics
>NBC IS the worst station around
>NBC shows very stupid commercials during the GAMES
>NBC doesn t show too much sports where US is unlikely to win
>NBC is not capable of doing its job
>NBC doesn t find all sports important
>NBC shows very little of statistics
>
>LET S MAKE NBC THE LEAST WATCHED NETWORK IN THE NATION
>
>
>NBC Coverage is the worst coverage of the Olympics many of us have ever seen.
>Even CBS Winter Olympic Coverage was better.
>
>NBC workers should go on STRIKE
>
>Their WEB site is pretty good though
>www.olympic.nbc.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:21:14 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Tesh, NBC, & Hooking in New Fans

>In broadcasts of figure skating, the network often shows short segments
>explaining some of the types of jumps and required elements. Some
>well-known skater is always featured, demonstrating said elements, and
>there are some uncomplicated little arrows and diagrams helping to
>illustrate the moves.
>
>Why not do this with gymnastics next time, NBC? Some of the repetitive
>fluff pieces about the the gymnasts' stories could easily be replaced with
>more information about the sport itself. These aren't half hour segments,
>we're talking three or five minutes here and there - focusing on one or two
>specific elements. This is a great opportunity to show clips from the past
>of the gymnasts performing moves named for them, another way to hook in the
>newer fans.

I agree totally. Carole Orchard hosts a little segment called "Chalk Talk" on
CBC which focusses on different elements of gymnastics. Sometimes
she features the historical aspect, i.e. Japanese gymnasts like Tsukahara
during Sabae. She also highlights the technical aspects of the sport, i.e.
amplitude (internal and external). She even did a segment about chalk and
how gymasts use it. Other ideas could include a breakdown of the
requirements for each event, showing examples. Also, a breakdown of
the different deductions that can be taken on landings would be good.
This would help new gymnastics fans to know what to look for when they
are watching a routine.

Jordynn
>
>Just my thoughts, back to lurking :-)

p.s. Please don't!!! Sounds like you have some great input!!
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:21:22 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Steve Nuno

>Okay, I'm on this list in digest form at the moment,
>so about a million people have probably already posted
>this, but I'm so damn mad I just had to write
>*something*!!!!
>
>Is it possible that Steve Nuno is THE most insensitive
>person on the fact of the entire earth?????
>
>I've never seen Shannon cry like that at a competition,
>and for him to stand there and tell her what she did
>*wrong* . . . and then tell her to "suck it up and stop
>crying". . . .
>
I agree totally!!!!!!! I was really mad when I saw that. Especially
when he said "Stop crying. There are people *everywhere*."
What Shannon needed then was a hug and some encouragement.
She didn't need to be told what she did wrong; she probably already
knew that. I felt so sorry for her and I lost a lot of respect for
Steve Nunno.

Jordynn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:18:00 EDT
From: ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Romanians

Boy, oh boy.

>From what I've heard Belu took Marinescu out because she wasn't working
hard enough and she picked up bad habits during her years in Bucharest.
Is being taken out of the AA a punishment? Gosh, the qualification for
the AA doesn't mean jack squat anymore. How can Belu do that? I
thought there had to be a legitimate reason (injury) to substitute
another gymnast. (And, from what I saw, Marinescu worked very hard, at
least in Podium training...) I don't think that this is fair. And I
hope that Alexandra will use her natural talent of speaking her mind on
this affair. Can you imagine if something like this happened on the US
team? Talk about SCANDAL.

It doesn't even sound like Belu put Amanar in because he thought she was
better, although that may well have been the case.

Oh well--I must say I am still a die-hard Romanian fan and the results
tonight really made me happy. It was kind of like a sweep...kind of!
How wonderful for their country. And how rewarding for the gymnasts,
all of them.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:21:38 -0500
From: ***@LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject: Re: WAG Coverage, John Tesh, and tape request

Hi everyone!

I tried an interesting experiment during tonight's NBC coverage, and thought
I'd share it with all of you. Before the coverage started tonight, I copied
all of the names of the thirty-six gymnasts who qulified according to
country on two sheets of paper so that I could record their scores
throughout the evening. It just so happened that the US, China, Romania, the
Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, and Uzbekistan wound up on one page, and all the
other represented countries on another (Australia, Canada, France, Spain,
Italy, Hungary, Greece, Japan). You can probably guess what I'm about to
say-- by the end of the coverage, I had one page with many scores, and a
second page without a single one.

I must say that I feel very lucky to be part of this list and hear from
those of you who are not from the United States, because otherwise I might
have remained uneducated as to which countries have strong gymnasts that are
just never shown during US coverage. I have heard so much about Yvonne
Tousek and Elvire Teza, and I haven't even the slightest idea what either of
them looks like! I SO wanted to see Joanna Juarez's routines, and not to
mention any ONE of the THREE Austrailian gymnasts who competed tonight.
Which leads me to my next question, and it's a popular one: is there a
Canadian on the list who might be willing to trade coverage? I'm
desperately seeking CBC and SRC coverage (I speak French), and have other
competitions to offer in return, not just the current NBC coverage of the
'96 Olympics. Please email me at : roc908@lulu.acns.nwu.edu

Does anyone remember the 1990 Goodwill Games? Now THERE was some good
coverage-- it's one of the best I've seen; they showed all kinds of routines
from gymnasts who didn't even make the top ten and were from countries that
didn't even send full teams. TBS was the station that covered it, and IMO
they did a much better job than any of the major networks have in a while.

I couldn't believe they held that camera in Dominique Dawes' face after she
finished her floor routine tonight-- I was too embarassed to watch; how
disrespectful to her!

And John Tesh still has not learned to SHUT IT when there is a routine going
on. What's worse is that he isn't usually talking about the gymnast who is
even on that apparatus. Whoever suggested the mute button was right-on; the
only problem is that you can't really do that on floor. :) I think that
John's main problem is that even though he doesn't know much about the
technical side of the sport, people feed him one or two bits of personal
info about each gymnast, and because he feels compelled to constantly
contribute, he reiterates the same exact one or two points of info every
time that gymnast is mentioned or seen. I DO wish he'd stop!! Once or twice
per broadcast is fine for that, but five or six times is a bit much. Please
pass that on to John, NBC. And learn that valuable lesson from TBS' coverage
of the 1990 Goodwill Games-- variety is more important to most people than
hearing John Tesh waste valuable coverage time talking about "little girls
dancing."

Sorry to have gone on so long, but I've been holding my breath for several
days, waiting to let this all out!

--Meighan

P.S. And thank you to those of you in advance who have international
coverage that you might consider trading. :)

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 25 Jul 1996 to 26 Jul 1996 - Special issue
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