GYMN-L Digest - 28 May 1996 to 29 May 1996 - Special issue

There are 24 messages totalling 613 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. Rhythmic gymnastics
2. TV COVERAGE (2)
3. Nelli Kim's BB dismount
4. add-ons to 92 olympics (2)
5. Internships at USAG
6. 92 olympic add-ons
7. WAG:EXCELLENT Trials tickets avail.
8. graduated base scores in the JO mens' program
9. Training video
10. sale of Karolyi's
11. 92' Olympics
12. New Code (4)
13. Olympic Teams
14. GYMN-L Digest - 27 May 1996 to 28 May 1996
15. Judging (2)
16. <No subject given>
17. miscellany
18. Eileens book

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 07:33:56 -0400
From: ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject: Rhythmic gymnastics

I just wanted to remind everybody that the 1996 U.S. rhythmic national
championships are this week. They are in Athens, Ga, site of the 1996
olympic rhythmic gymnastics competition. Here is a list of the competition
schedule and ticket info.

FRIDAY- 9:30am, 3:30pm
SATURDAY- 9am, 11:30am, 3:30pm
SUNDAY- 10am, 1pm

Tickets are $4 adults, $2 children. It is held at the Georgia Coliseum at
the University of Georgia.

The ticket prices are great. They are cheaper than all of the artistic gym
meets we have had in Atlanta recently (IBM Invitational, the Kodak
Invitational, McDonalds 3-on-3 comp). It will probably be better than all of
those put together.

If anybody is going, let me know. I can give you info on lodging, and how to
get there (if you are traveling by car).

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 09:43:56 -0400
From: ***@LIBERTY.MOHAWKC.ON.CA
Subject: TV COVERAGE

With the US Nationals quickly approaching can someone please tell me when
NBC's coverage of it will be so I can get my VCR ready.

Matt

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:18:50 -0400
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Nelli Kim's BB dismount

I have just acquired coverage of the 1980 Moscow Olympics, where
Nelli Kim perfomred the most unreal dismount off the balance beam that I
have ever seen. From a one foot take-off, she performed off the end of
the beam, and tucked barani-in back-out! I couldn't believe my eyes when
I first saw it; I wanted to make sure it was what I thought it was. Does
anyone know what this dismount would be worth in today's code? Surely it
must be at least D, if not E. Just remarkable.
Chris.

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:24:56 EDT
From: ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: add-ons to 92 olympics

Sorry to ask again, but who were the two injured gymnasts proxy-ed onto
the 1992 Olympic team depite missing Trials? Betty Okino is one, right?

Please e-mail me directly with an answer. Thanks.

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 08:38:16 -0600
From: ***@RMI.NET
Subject: Internships at USAG

USA GYMNASTICS INTERNSHIP # 1
VIDEO DEPARTMENT - Summer 1996

USA Gymnastics, located in downtown Indianapolis, is the United States
National Governing Body for the sport of gymnastics.

The Video intern will work with the Video Production Coordinator
managing the USAG Audio/Visual Department. This will be a highly
active position coinciding with the U.S. Olympic Trials, National
Congress and the Olympic Games. The Video intern will support USAG
staff during this very important and exciting time while gaining
hands-on experience in video services.

Applicants must be organized and interested in video services. Video
production and computer skills as well as skills in editing, writing
and people skills are necessary. Gymnastics knowledge preferred. This
position is for college credit only. Parking stipend will be provided.


Specific Duties Include:

Assist with Editing New Video Products

Assist with Production of the Video Volunteer Training Manual and
Video Help write text, research video library and enter data.

Support During Events (US Olympic Trials, National Congress and the
Olympic Games) Receive video tapes from the event site. Label, dub and
file them into the Video Library. Assist USAG staff with video
equipment, projects and communication to event site staff.

Fill Video Requests
Respond to incoming requests for video footage. Copy and send tapes
when needed.

Maintain Video Library
Keep Video Library up-to-date by entering new videos into computer,
labeling and filing tapes. Write advertising copy for new video
products.


Applicants respond to:

Dawn Alice Brenner
317-237-5050 Ext. 254
USA Gymnastics

after June 1:
Jennifer Gallahue Lee
317-237-5050 Ext. 237
USA Gymnastics




USA GYMNASTICS INTERNSHIP # 2
EDUCATION INTERN - Summer 1996


USA Gymnastics, located in downtown Indianapolis, is the United States
National Governing Body for the sport of gymnastics.

The Education intern will work with the Educational Development
Coordinator on publications and projects leading in to the 1996 USA
Gymnastics National Congress in Boston.

The position is for college credit only. Parking stipend provided.

Applicants must be computer proficient and organized. Skills in
publishing, editing, research and education helpful. Gymnastics
knowledge preferred.


Specific duties and projects include:

Assemble Educational Resource File.
The main project for the Education intern is to create a working
educational resource file with information pertaining to all USAG
departments. This is a great opportunity to exercise research and
production skills producing a comprehensive data source for USAG
members. Intern will have creative control and flexibility to direct
this project.

Assist with the publication of the 1996 Congress Proceedings Book.
Duties include editing, typing manuscripts and scanning logos for
print. Intern's name will be published in the 1996 Congress
Proceedings Book.

Assist Kinder Accreditation for Teachers Program (KAT).
Assist with promotional mailing, writing and entering data for the KAT
program.


Applicants respond to:

Jennifer Gallahue Lee
USA Gymnastics
317-237-5050 Ext. 237

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:46:12 EDT
From: ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: 92 olympic add-ons

Sorry to ask again, but can anyone tell me the names of the two injured
gymnasts that missed Trials but got proxy-ed onto the 1992 Olympic team?

Please e-mail me privately with an answer. Thanks.

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:41:20 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: WAG:EXCELLENT Trials tickets avail.

Hello:

I may have 2 REALLY Good tickets available for the women's compulsories and
optionals available. I will only get these tickets if I can sell the
women's (face value of course) but they are EXCELLENT. Please let me know
ASAP if *you* have an interest in these.

Thanks
Mayland

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:46:44 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: graduated base scores in the JO mens' program

> I believe that our committee put together a pretty fine program for the
>past quadrennium. When we found mistakes or problems, we changed them right
>away, rather than waiting for the next quadrennium. The result was a
totally
>new, redirected boys program.

And I would agree with you about the content of the program. I can personally
attest to how much the program has helped my own gymnasts progress through
their basic skills. Especially on vaulting and pommel horse.

However, I still maintain that the graduated base score system was more
trouble than it was worth for the following reasons:

1. IMHO boys drop out in droves at the beginner optional levels not because
their scores drop, but because GYMNASTICS GETS HARD. Very few have what it
takes(both physically and mentally) to become good optional gymnasts, thus
they drop out. Graduated base scores do nothing to help this problem.
2. If a coach properly communicates with his gym parents then it doesn't
matter what the base score is. A parent will recognize a good score when he
sees one.
3. As I have said before, graduated base scores made my job as a judge more
difficult. And if the idea is to get each gymnast placed properly in relation
to his competitors, making a judge's job harder is the last thing you want to
do.

Dean

Disclaimer: I am not trying to start an argument, be controversial, or flame
Bill (I have a great deal of respect for Bill and I believe he knows
it). So the ten or twelve of you who are about to command me to "take this
topic to private e-mail" should lighten up.

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:03:20 -0400
From: ***@NORFOLK.INFI.NET
Subject: Re: add-ons to 92 olympics

At 10:24 AM 5/28/96 EDT, you wrote:
>Sorry to ask again, but who were the two injured gymnasts proxy-ed onto
>the 1992 Olympic team depite missing Trials? Betty Okino is one, right?
>
>Please e-mail me directly with an answer. Thanks.
>
>

I believe it was Michelle Campi. If nothing else, I got the whole "scoop"
on the '92 olympic team from Ms. Ryans book.
Connie

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:04:48 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Training video

Just giving my opinion of John Litter's accelerated preschool video. Besides
having some incredible preschoolers, the drills and training methods he uses
are applicable to literally all levels and ages of gymnastics training
through lower level team kids. Each drill is showed several times, including
the "mistakes" the kids make, allowing for a more realistic and useful
demonstration of actual gym training.

I think he has offered the video for sale on this list (GymPhoenix), so you
may contact him if you have any other questions. Or me; I've watched it
twice now, and plan on showing it to all my coaches.

Gina

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:46:07 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: sale of Karolyi's

The gym has been sold! As of May 1, 1996, the contract went to James
Holms(not sure on last name)of Acrofit in the College Station,TX area.
As part of the contract, James gets to use the "Karolyi" name until
December 1996. So even though the name is there till December, the
actual Karolyi's (Marta and Bela) will no longer have anything to do
with the Houston Gym. I personally believe that it is deceptive to use
the Karolyi name once they are gone to draw people to the gym. I think
that if James can do as good a job with his new gym as he has done with
his gym in College Station ,it would be only fitting to rename the new
gym.
We have been told (as of late April) that Bela's Olympic hopefuls will
be training at Karolyi's ranch in New Waverly till the Olympics. Bela
will still be hosting his summer camps at the same ranch. I would urge
anyone who gets a chance to attend a camp session or a workshop at the
ranch to attend. It is a great place, the facilities are wonderful and
the setting is beautiful.
As for the question on retirement, I don't know if this can be called a
retirement officially. I have not heard anything about Bela retiring.
I have heard it through the "gym-vine" of plans to promote gymnastics
just as is being done for ice skating. Sort of like the traveling
Skating shows that come to town every now and then, and like the shows
we see so much on the TV now. I believe this would be a great boost to
the sport. And Bela would be a great man to help it along.

Karen
mother of
Kirsten
Karolyi gymnast 94'-96'

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 14:06:33 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: 92' Olympics

Hi everyone,

I am interested in finding anyone who has video taped the 92' Oylmpics. I am
willing to pay for the tape, postage and handly.

Thanks,
Sandi

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 15:21:54 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: New Code

In regards to bjcorr statements about the intelligents of elite judges. As
the coach who was part of that disscussion I would like to explain my
statements origin.

8 months I spent attending invitationals and elite meets disscussing the
yurchenko vault I did not meet one judge that could give me an explination of
how to REALLY tell the differance between a layout 1/2 turn and a arabian
layout. These disscussions occured due to the score of my gymnast ranging
from 9.0 to 9.7 for the same vault. I think the judges need to spend more
time in the gyms to "see" what is really going on the competition floor. All
the answers are NOT in the code book. By the way that gymnasts was first in
the country last year (JR. international).


Coach

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:25:01 -0700
From: ***@TELIS.ORG
Subject: Re: Olympic Teams

Katie asked: How many gymnasts can make an olympic team (in 1996)?

I am not sure about the women, but for the men the following is true:
There will be seven men chosen and one alternate for the olympic team.
These gymnasts will be selected according to the scores received at
Championships of the USA (40%) and the Olympic Trials (60%). So, 40% of
each gymnasts' qualifying score will come from Championships and 60% from
the Olympic Trials.

There may be some question as to the security of the 7th spot. They may
chose to decide between the gymnast in spot # 7 and #8 at the training camp
prior to the olympics. I am not sure about this part, but there will be 7
men gymnasts on the olympic team and one alternate. I would think that the
women's team will be made up in a similar manner.

Michelle

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 15:28:18 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 27 May 1996 to 28 May 1996

Are the 97 code changes final? Can there be any changes to it before it is
implemented?

Jenny

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 18:36:12 -0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject: Re: TV COVERAGE

Cab somebody tell all of us when nationals will be on?
I really enjoyed the list that was sent arround a while ago with all the
tv listings, I had to delete it when my system crashed.
Alisa

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 15:59:43 -0700
From: ***@EFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Judging

This is for all those of you who are elite judges:

Do you ever watch the televised competitions?

I guess I am wondering this because I mentally score gymnasts when I see
their live action routine. Then, during the slow motion replays I see
form breaks and other errors and mentally reduce their score.

In order to be ethical as a judge does one have to force themselves not
to watch the meets on TV? I think Pods is the best example, she doesn't
seem to get deducted for her form break on her Geinger and the
commentators always say that it's because the judges sit on the side and
can't see it. I guess if I were a judge and saw it in slow motion, I'd
be watching for it next time.

I know we have gymners who have judged at big meets, including the Sabae
worlds and I would love to hear from you. Feel free to email me
privately if you'd like to keep the conversation in confidence.

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:40:22 -0400
From: ***@UKY.CAMPUS.MCI.NET
Subject: New Code

Peter Vidmar asked me to post this for him.

>Remember, devalueing is good so long as it is for both men's and womens
>gymnastics. As of now, the women will still have a higher base score than the
>men and will be giving all but experienced gymnastics people the perception
>that "once again the women are better than the men". This has been a real
>problem with the selling of men's gymnastics to television. The perception is
>"too bad the men aren't any good, they only score 9.3's but those women are
>scoring 9.8's all over the place, they're so much better". Let's be honest,
>the housewife in Des Moines wants to see a 10. Aside from the fact that
>women's gymnastics is simply more popular than men's, it doesn't help when
>Scherbo scores a 9,35 to win a major title while the 23rd place on women's
>vault was a 9.75251253575.
>
>
Chris

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Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 14:13:09 +1300
From: ***@NETACCESS.CO.NZ
Subject: <No subject given>

Dean wrote on the 28th May
"However, at the
international level, there is a lot more going on at the podium then looking
for bent legs. There is quite a bit of politics involved. "

To a certain extent you are right Dean, but there are measures to ensure
that judges judge correctly. This is what the introduction of the JOE
programme ( Judging Objectivity Evaluation ) was meant to eliminate.
This computer programme checks the panel judges scores against many variables.
Their ranking of each gymnast, team, opposing team etc.
The Control score that they are measured against is the score from the WTC
member on the apparatus and the Expert.
The Control score ranking of the gymnasts & teams, compared to the panel
judges ranking of the same gymnasts and teams is looked at closely.
Judges are warned, can be removed or suspended for biased or incompetent
judging.
In the last 4 years since Jackie Fie has been the WTC President there has
been a lot of tightening up on biased judging.
For some however the threat of suspension is not nearly as frightening as
having the team coach hit the roof because you " didn't do your job" as he
/she sees it.
Until we suspend all the judges from a country that is caught cheating it
will continue to some extent. Some countries at the moment wouldn't care if
their judge got suspended they would just replace them. However with
Belarus, they have a problem as Nelli Kim is the only judge from there that
is qualified to judge at Worlds or Olympics.
Avril

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 22:20:51 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Judging

I am not an Elite Judge (Level 10, however). Meet are televised at many
levels in this country and I often see college teams that I judge on tv and
many times at meets that I am judging. I don't feel there is any ethical
problem with watching videos of gymnasts performing routines. This is the
main way that many of us bone up for meets. Just because we see a gymnast
perform something on video with errors in no way leads us to take that
deduction while we are judging if we can't see it. We only take deductions
for what we see during the live competition we are judging. I have witnessed
at a few international meets that I have been to that many (NOT ALL) will
watch podium training rather intently just to get a feel as to what is
getting thrown by the athletes in the competition. They do this, not to
pre-judge, but to be prepared for the diversity of the competition. There
are many many different elements for gymnasts to perform and just one really
strange thing may throw you off for a bit.

Just my 2 cents.

Dean


>This is for all those of you who are elite judges:
>
>Do you ever watch the televised competitions?
>
>I guess I am wondering this because I mentally score gymnasts when I see
>their live action routine. Then, during the slow motion replays I see
>form breaks and other errors and mentally reduce their score.
>
>In order to be ethical as a judge does one have to force themselves not
>to watch the meets on TV? I think Pods is the best example, she doesn't
>seem to get deducted for her form break on her Geinger and the
>commentators always say that it's because the judges sit on the side and
>can't see it. I guess if I were a judge and saw it in slow motion, I'd
>be watching for it next time.
>
>I know we have gymners who have judged at big meets, including the Sabae
>worlds and I would love to hear from you. Feel free to email me
>privately if you'd like to keep the conversation in confidence.

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Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 21:07:09 -0700
From: ***@SONIC.NET
Subject: New Code

Jeff wrote;
>I don't agree with changing scoring system to a two system method. What =
I
>would rather see is actual, REAL deductions for execution errors <snip>

And this finally gets to the crux of the matter. What rules govern a
sport are unimportant if they are not applied in a consistent and =
objective
manner. I have never fretted over Code changes, they will apply to =
everyone. If scores decrease, it is a non-issue to me, (as a coach), =
ranking is what matters. What bothers me is the apparent haphazard =
method in which the Code is applied, the lack of "wrong vault" =
deductions for the many so called Yurchenko 1/2 turn front vaults comes =
readily to mind. I was informed by a fellow coach that many of the =
judges simply did not know the difference. I personally have found most =
judges at the Elite level to be extremely intelligent and well versed =
in the sport, I can't subscribe to his theory.
Point being that Code changes only beg the real problemn...

bjcorr

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Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 01:33:02 -0700
From: ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: miscellany

Interesting weekend. As usual I worked the Bay Con Science Fiction Convention.
(Saw Will "Chops" Westerfild from this list there!)
My gymnastics tshirt got me into a conversation, the result being that
I promised to ask if anyone knows of an adult gymnastics program in the
San Diego CA USA area.

One last thing, non gymnastics related, we keep having that "good times" hoax
posted.
I have debunked it many times and told you where the real advisories come from.
Well, this weekend I got a bonafide CERT advisory, contact me privately if you
want a copy, its applicable to networks running NIS and NIS+ and its 330 lines
long and its a tad off topic so Ill spare the listserv (laughter)

Chalk up !

-texx

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Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 02:34:17 -0700
From: ***@SONIC.NET
Subject: New Code

Okay, I did a quick scan of the proposed new code and putit up on my web =
site:http://www.sonic.net/~bjcorr. The site is new and still under =
construction, but the new code proposal is there. Any problemns, yell at =
***@sonic.net

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Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:56:16 +0100
From: ***@GL.RHBNC.AC.UK
Subject: Eileens book

I bought my copy at the Womens Euro's in Birmingham.

It make a perfect autograph book! I got loads of thme whilst I was there...I
got the gymnasts to sign next to their pictures. I also got the chance to meet
Eillen...and she signed my book too. She had no idea how popular it was going
to be. 150 books were brought to the comp. They were supposed to last the 4
days of the comp, but they sold out on the second day!


Sarah :)

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 28 May 1996 to 29 May 1996 - Special issue
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